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View Full Version : What's the deal with ERU?


Romeo Hotel
08-02-2015, 04:13 PM
I've noticed a weird trend of dogging on that particular college in a lot of the threads. I'm just wondering if that's because of it's popularity, or if there's another reason.

The general attitude about the place makes me think it's the aviation world's version of a diploma mill or something. Am I missing something?

Currently planning on using my GI Bill there (not out of AD yet) so if anyone could let me in on the inside joke, I'd appreciate it.


JamesNoBrakes
08-02-2015, 04:54 PM
I've noticed a weird trend of dogging on that particular college in a lot of the threads. I'm just wondering if that's because of it's popularity, or if there's another reason.

The general attitude about the place makes me think it's the aviation world's version of a diploma mill or something. Am I missing something?

Currently planning on using my GI Bill there (not out of AD yet) so if anyone could let me in on the inside joke, I'd appreciate it.

Just like UND, the training is high quality and they actually hold you to standards. It's excellent training and equipment for the most part. The problem is the premium price and all the training you do (in class) that is orientated towards being a major airline pilot in the right seat of a 747. You don't go to the right seat of a 747 after graduating, in fact, for many graduates, it takes 10+ years to get to the major airline, much of that knowledge is fairly useless. There are also few employment opportunities with this knowledge outside of being an airline pilot, and this degree does NOT get you the airline pilot job, flight experience and command experience does. It's a little out there to say that the airlines don't care about the degree at all, but they are going to look at your PIC 121 turbine time first, then they'll look at your PIC multi-engine turbine time, then they'll look at your PIC time or what types of aircraft you can fly. The degree is pretty far down the list and there are many other things that make one hire-able, like aerobatic experience, or project management, or military service, maybe volunteer work, and so on.

There are basically certain "rungs" of a ladder that you have to climb in this career. Everyone has to climb the same rungs for the most part. Sometimes people think they might be able to skip a rung, but it is exceptionally rare and in many cases there is just no avenue to do so (like the company's insurance won't hire someone with hours that are too low, even though technically they hold the correct certificate, or the hang-up could be due to regulations that require a certain amount of hours). During this process, many people "branch off" to different "ladders", rather than be constrained to the airline pilot idea. There are many different kinds of pilots out there that are paid, although again, the "piloting" degree program is really intended just for the airline pilot.

The financial aspect can not be understated. If it costs $200K (which it does), you won't pay just 200K, you will pay 200K plust the loan interest that you incur over the lifetime of paying it back. Think about what those payments will be and how it will take you 5-10 years to earn more than 50K/yr in the workforce. The positive aspect is that for the foreseeable future, airline hiring will be decent. So this number could be less, but do not, DO NOT listen to ANYONE that tells you you need to get your licenses and ratings REAL FAST or NOW, because those people just want your money and nothing more. They've been saying that to every generation. Going back to that monetary amount, if it takes you a few more years to get your certificates and you don't have to pay loans, you will be better off in life than so many people. Most of us, if we had to do it again, would not take out any loans and would simply take a few more years. Think about what you can do with that kind of money, buy a house, a plane, invest, etc. It will be that much longer before you can do any of those things if you have to take out loans on the magnitude required to go to some of these schools.

These are good quality schools, they do try to teach you as best as possible, but at the end of the day there are far more important things, so spending that much money on the degree is generally not a wise idea.

All that said, if money is no object, it's a great experience, just make sure to major in something other than "professional piloting" or whatever they are calling it, so you have options if your medical status ever changes. There will be lots of people that probably badmouth the schools, but they have high standards and programs to ensure the quality of instructions. Motivation is usually the biggest issue when training college kids that are fresh out of high school. To that extent, if you are very self-motivated you can usually do well, but that usually means you can do well anywhere. Some of the cheapest schools or avenues won't be able to provide instruction that are commensurate with your level of motivation. The old "find a good part 61 instructor" line isn't always realistic, as regulations and other things change, so it can be harder to find someone that stays on top of everything and has a lot of experience. There may be no one that fits that requirement for hundreds of miles. Smaller pilot schools are often more disorganized and don't offer instruction that is of the quality of those big schools. This isn't a hard and fast rule, I'm sure there are exceptional small schools, but for the most part the bigger schools provide excellent instruction and structure. They also prepare you for airline groundschools and learning (see above), which may or may not be useful in a reasonable amount of time, but for those that aren't sure if they will hack it at an airline, these will usually give a good idea if they can/will.

Good luck.

PRS Guitars
08-02-2015, 05:00 PM
First off, are you talking about attending at Daytona/Prescott? Or the Air Force online/correspondence classes? Are you attending just to get a degree or to pursue a flying career?

For attending the actual campus, the flying is way over priced. You do not need an aviation degree to be an airline pilot and most on here will probably recommend a degree in something else. Your GI bill will not even begin to cover all of the costs of the flying program there.

For attending the online/correspondence courses. Yes it has a reputation as a degree mill. Particularly for Air Force Officers checking the master's degree square for promotion.

Full disclosure, I didn't attend either version, but did look into attending the Daytona campus when I was in High School.


UAL T38 Phlyer
08-02-2015, 06:31 PM
I trained a lot of Air Force student pilots....best guess, about 400.

A significant portion were EU grads. (maybe 8%)

And not one of them performed better than brand-new guys with 20 hours of flight screening.

I think every one of them thought to himself on day-one: "They say it isn't going to help, but I'm going to kick (donkey) here."

And on graduation day, they would say "You were right, EU didn't teach me a thing to use here."

You can use that two ways:

1) EU is not helpful for a military career towards fighters or fighter-like flying.

2) It may not be all that advantageous for a civilian career. Good training, but you could do just as well for far less money elsewhere.

EU was a legitimate school during WWII. But now, I see them as part of the Military-Industrial complex. The fact that they have their tentacles so far into military Masters programs ("Pay your fee; get your B is the standard cliche), with questionable instructors for that program (recent EU Masters grads in my squadron were teaching classes they had attended just six months before!) for exorbitant fees gives me that conclusion.

Romeo Hotel
08-02-2015, 06:38 PM
I guess I should be more specific.

I already have a Bach degree (unrelated to aviation) and I just got my CCAF degree as well. I'm speaking solely for the flight training purposes.

I'm trying to find a program that has the most bang for my buck in terms of training (who isn't right?), and it just looked like ERU was the best bet. Since I can apply the college credits I already have toward one of their Aeronautics degrees and get paid BAH while doing so, it looked like the best way to go.

Basically, I'm on the fence about applying those GI benefits toward a degree program incorporated into flight training. But the overall theme I'm picking up, is training first, education secondary.

Am I on the mark?

PRS Guitars
08-03-2015, 02:09 PM
I guess I should be more specific.

I already have a Bach degree (unrelated to aviation) and I just got my CCAF degree as well. I'm speaking solely for the flight training purposes.

I'm trying to find a program that has the most bang for my buck in terms of training (who isn't right?), and it just looked like ERU was the best bet. Since I can apply the college credits I already have toward one of their Aeronautics degrees and get paid BAH while doing so, it looked like the best way to go.

Basically, I'm on the fence about applying those GI benefits toward a degree program incorporated into flight training. But the overall theme I'm picking up, is training first, education secondary.

Am I on the mark?
Hell no, you are not on the mark!

If you have a degree, you'd be nuts to go there. Your GI bill won't come close to covering costs. You don't need the degree. It's probably the most expensive training you could do. It will delay your career by years.

You already have a degree, you need to go one of two routes.

1. Find a way bam thank you ma'am program a la All ATP and knock everything out including CFI. Get a flying job ASAP after that.

2. Get a non flying job while you knock it out locally over the course of a year or so, again to CFI. Then get a flying job ASAP.

Don't even think about an aviation degree. It'd be a complete waste of money and more importantly time.

Romeo Hotel
08-03-2015, 04:50 PM
1. Find a way bam thank you ma'am program a la All ATP and knock everything out including CFI. Get a flying job ASAP after that.



Don't even think about an aviation degree. It'd be a complete waste of money and more importantly time.

I thought so too, but I've been struggling to find a recommended program like that.

Most of the programs/schools like that seem to have a pretty sketchy reputation online. Can you recommend anything?

PRS Guitars
08-03-2015, 06:17 PM
I thought so too, but I've been struggling to find a recommended program like that.

Most of the programs/schools like that seem to have a pretty sketchy reputation online. Can you recommend anything?

I really can't as I've been out of GA for 13 years. I did go to Flight Safety Academy in Vero Beach over twenty years ago. It was very good training and structured much like the military training I received later. It was expensive though and I'm not sure what the program is like today.

Are you still in the military? You might be able to find a local school or flying club that accepts the GI bill. The school I taught at was a local flying club, I was an independent contract CFI and we did accept the GI bill (this was in the 90's). Good thing about that route is that you might be able to get a CFI job when you're done. Independent Contract CFI's can make decent money.

And take what you read on here through a filter (including mine), posts tend to be negative. Often you can get some good info through PM's.

Romeo Hotel
08-03-2015, 06:46 PM
Are you still in the military? You might be able to find a local school or flying club that accepts the GI bill. The school I taught at was a local flying club, I was an independent contract CFI and we did accept the GI bill (this was in the 90's). Good thing about that route is that you might be able to get a CFI job when you're done. Independent Contract CFI's can make decent money.

And take what you read on here through a filter (including mine), posts tend to be negative. Often you can get some good info through PM's.

Yes, I'm still in the military. When I entered my last year of enlistment, I started flying with an independent guy out of a local FBO just to wrap up my PPL that I started years ago. I enjoy flying with him, but I don't think he'll take my GI Bill. I will certainly ask him about it though.


I have been poking around Flight Safety and submitted a request for information. Their site says they currently accept GI Bill payments, but that only 60% is covered. This is confusing to me because I qualify for chapter 33, which is listed as 100% on the VA website. This leads me to believe that the benefit cap will only cover 60% of their total cost.

Florida Flight Training Center also caught my eye, but it's hard to find any testimonials about that one as well.

Thanks again for the heads up.

kingsnake2
08-04-2015, 05:35 AM
Yes, I'm still in the military. When I entered my last year of enlistment, I started flying with an independent guy out of a local FBO just to wrap up my PPL that I started years ago. I enjoy flying with him, but I don't think he'll take my GI Bill. I will certainly ask him about it though.


I have been poking around Flight Safety and submitted a request for information. Their site says they currently accept GI Bill payments, but that only 60% is covered. This is confusing to me because I qualify for chapter 33, which is listed as 100% on the VA website. This leads me to believe that the benefit cap will only cover 60% of their total cost.

Florida Flight Training Center also caught my eye, but it's hard to find any testimonials about that one as well.

Thanks again for the heads up.

RH - it sounds like you may be qualified for both Chp 30 and 33. When going to a school classified as vocational flight training it will generally be better to use the Chapter 30 Montgomery bill which covers 60%.

Post 9/11 covers 100% only at an accredited college (and that's kinda changed recently to cover more like 100% of the expected times for flight training). At a vocational school its limited to around $11k per academic year - so not 100% unless you spread training across many years and it will not cover private, checkride fees, or books.



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