Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : Flight instructing without II?


ATA407
10-07-2015, 05:42 PM
Is it doable to flight instruct to atp mins of 500 cross country and 100 night hours without getting your II addon?


viper548
10-07-2015, 07:13 PM
Doable? Yes. It will take much longer to get the cross country time though. It's been a while since I last instructed but I recall the instrument students providing the most cross country time. There is no requirement that the flying be done during the day, so it's easy to get night time with instrument students as well.
Where I instructed, fog would often shut down operations for days on end during the winter. Some of the instructors that didn't have the II were canceling all of their lessons. I'd take off with the student IFR, fly up into the foothills for the lesson and pick up an IFR clearance on the way back. I suppose they could have just flown it themselves but I think they were IFR non current too.
I preferred doing instrument training, it provides more consistency in your schedule, since all of the student's flights are dual.

c250ft
10-08-2015, 04:53 AM
I'm pretty sure X-country time for atp mins is point to point. Not the 50 miles or more. That should make it pretty easy to get.


usmc-sgt
10-08-2015, 05:02 AM
Even point to point, 50 miles with a private student isn't very common. There are not many reasons to be dragging a private student 50 miles away from your home base without wasting their time or money. There will be opportunity but really only during the XC training phase or non maneuvers like tracking a VOR.

You'll be much better off getting the II. It's by far the easiest of the instructor rides and most flights can be 50 miles away without issue. Be a CFI and ask another CFI to go up with you a few times to get you ready for the ride. Take the check ride with one of the DPEs your school uses that you've built a rapport with. You'll be ready in a few quick flights if even that many.

Tippy
10-08-2015, 09:00 AM
I'm pretty sure X-country time for atp mins is point to point. Not the 50 miles or more. That should make it pretty easy to get.

ATP mins are flights greater than 50 NM from point of departure. Does not have to include a landing unlike private and commercial. I often take studens 50 miles away for practice approaches at numerous airports, do a missed approach and count the whole thing for ATP XC, i try to do a touch and go also so the student can also get the XC towards the commerical.

c250ft
10-08-2015, 11:31 AM
For the purpose of an ATP certificate I believe there is no distance required. Just private and commercial and a couple others. Definition C. says its just point to point and (ii) explains for what ratings it applies for the 50nm requirement.
Cross-country time means--


(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (ii) through (vi) of this definition, time acquired during flight—

(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
(B) Conducted in an aircraft;

(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and

(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.


(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under § 61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

ErnDollas
10-08-2015, 12:49 PM
For the ATP it's more than 50 nautical miles from point of departure but no landing is required.

61.1
Cross country time-
(vi) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.