Airline Pilot Forums

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CaelumFinis
10-14-2015, 01:51 PM
Hello! I am 24 and recently graduated with a BS in an unrelated field, a degree I will likely never use (at least at this point in my life). I'm currently working a full-time job, living at home, at about 25-30k/yr. (The living with my parents-part was to ideally to devote most of the year's upcoming income directly to my private license.)
I currently work at FedEx (retail) which has availed many conversations with pilots. Just about everyone has suggested (1) an upcoming shortage (which my critical/cynic, and this forum's resources allude differently), and (2) the best way to complete training is on the govt's dime through the ANG or Airforce.
Additionally I am currently in the Baltimore-area, with few other prospects and passions in a career-oriented mind-set. However, the prospect of compounding my current debt (maybe not with ppl, but long-term) is less than ideal.

I appreciate any thoughts, ideas, questions, or critique of my general thoughts/ plans.

(Thanks in advance)


Death2Daleks
10-14-2015, 03:16 PM
You have the degree, now get the commission and be trained by the best in the business. I liked the Navy, and did a lot of my training with Air Force guys. Both are great options. Good luck!

Romeo Hotel
10-14-2015, 03:53 PM
Hello! I am 24 and recently graduated with a BS in an unrelated field, a degree I will likely never use (at least at this point in my life). I'm currently working a full-time job, living at home, at about 25-30k/yr. (The living with my parents-part was to ideally to devote most of the year's upcoming income directly to my private license.)
I currently work at FedEx (retail) which has availed many conversations with pilots. Just about everyone has suggested (1) an upcoming shortage (which my critical/cynic, and this forum's resources allude differently), and (2) the best way to complete training is on the govt's dime through the ANG or Airforce.
Additionally I am currently in the Baltimore-area, with few other prospects and passions in a career-oriented mind-set. However, the prospect of compounding my current debt (maybe not with ppl, but long-term) is less than ideal.

I appreciate any thoughts, ideas, questions, or critique of my general thoughts/ plans.

(Thanks in advance)

Shop around with your options. Contact ANG, Reserve, and Active Duty recruiters. If your GPA is competitive enough, you have a shot. Boards have been pretty saturated over the last few years (bad job market in the civ world) so you'll need to be as open as possible in terms of who you'll sign with.

If your GPA is high enough and you fit the right profile or find a unit hurting for bodies to send to UPT you have a good chance.


hypnotika
10-14-2015, 05:16 PM
Mate, worst time to join any branch of the military due to Sequestration or mandatory cuts in defense budget. I sure hope you have zero medical issues, flawless background, perfect vision, and score high on entrance exams - in other words superstar on paper. Because in case you haven't heard the military trying to get rid of people and are being very VERY selective. Go back to college, pursue another degree maybe a Masters that makes you actually marketable. Use student loans to pay for flight training; seriously the government is subsidizing student loans and providing loans at a rate slightly above inflation - not for much longer once the Fed raises interest rates next year. Government is practically throwing free money at you and paying the interest WHILE in school. Go to a university that has a airport and some sort of affordable training/rental nearby to build time.... such as University of Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, or UC Davis. Go to accelerated training once you meet aeronautical experience for a rating/cert.

JamesNoBrakes
10-14-2015, 08:29 PM
Mate, worst time to join any branch of the military due to Sequestration or mandatory cuts in defense budget. I sure hope you have zero medical issues, flawless background, perfect vision, and score high on entrance exams - in other words superstar on paper. Because in case you haven't heard the military trying to get rid of people and are being very VERY selective. Go back to college, pursue another degree maybe a Masters that makes you actually marketable. Use student loans to pay for flight training; seriously the government is subsidizing student loans and providing loans at a rate slightly above inflation - not for much longer once the Fed raises interest rates next year. Government is practically throwing free money at you and paying the interest WHILE in school. Go to a university that has a airport and some sort of affordable training/rental nearby to build time.... such as University of Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, or UC Davis. Go to accelerated training once you meet aeronautical experience for a rating/cert.
BS. This is where I actually side with John Burke and not SkyHigh. JB is unrealistic IMO in his approach to situations where you can not reasonably expect to have a positive outcome, but this is not one of those situations. This guy is young, could go into the military, become an officer, make decent money and benefits, get an education, all for free. In the worse case scenario, he has to get pilot certificates and ratings on the side. The idea that you have to do things "quick" is total BS, people will always be retiring until we figure out a way to make them live forever. There is no hurry or rush and the usual path to a career flying for FedEx or UPS probably takes around 20 years, with few shortcuts. Lots of people got hired at certain times because they came out of the military and there was a huge need, but the market is more flooded now and some of those old captains have no idea on the reality of the career path that exists today and how long it takes, how much of a struggle it is, how far you have to go into debt, etc.

The point is, if he can join the military, get into aviation in some way, he could find yourself significantly ahead, ESPECIALLY if he doesn' have the funds right now for pilot training. One of the WORST things is to go into significant debt to pay for college and flight training. You don't make 100K a few years after college, so you won't be paying that money back any time soon, and it will affect your ability to raise a family, have nice things, save money for retirement, etc.

DO NOT go into debt to pay for flight training and college. It's one of the stupidest things you could do at this stage IMO.

hypnotika
10-14-2015, 09:34 PM
BS. This is where I actually side with John Burke and not SkyHigh. JB is unrealistic IMO in his approach to situations where you can not reasonably expect to have a positive outcome, but this is not one of those situations. This guy is young, could go into the military, become an officer, make decent money and benefits, get an education, all for free. In the worse case scenario, he has to get pilot certificates and ratings on the side. The idea that you have to do things "quick" is total BS, people will always be retiring until we figure out a way to make them live forever. There is no hurry or rush and the usual path to a career flying for FedEx or UPS probably takes around 20 years, with few shortcuts. Lots of people got hired at certain times because they came out of the military and there was a huge need, but the market is more flooded now and some of those old captains have no idea on the reality of the career path that exists today and how long it takes, how much of a struggle it is, how far you have to go into debt, etc.

The point is, if he can join the military, get into aviation in some way, he could find yourself significantly ahead, ESPECIALLY if he doesn' have the funds right now for pilot training. One of the WORST things is to go into significant debt to pay for college and flight training. You don't make 100K a few years after college, so you won't be paying that money back any time soon, and it will affect your ability to raise a family, have nice things, save money for retirement, etc.

DO NOT go into debt to pay for flight training and college. It's one of the stupidest things you could do at this stage IMO.

Gee, I thought paying for flight training and having some debt is how most civilians get into aviation. I find it absurd to join the the military for the primary and specific reason of having the government cover flight training. Become an officer to have nice things, then maybe.... hopefully fly as a pilot? I prefer someone actually interested in leading/managing troops to fill that O slot. Besides this does not directly get him to his goal. And you can be certain Uncle Sam is doing talent management by selecting the best and brightest to be a pilot these days and in this environment. So, he better be WELL QUALIFIED and prepared to step up. BTW, its an honor and privilege to serve in the military.

JamesNoBrakes
10-14-2015, 09:53 PM
Gee, I thought paying for flight training and having some debt is how most civilians get into aviation. I find it absurd to join the the military for the primary and specific reason of having the government cover flight training. Become an officer to have nice things, then maybe.... hopefully fly as a pilot? I prefer someone actually interested in leading/managing troops to fill that O slot. Besides this does not directly get him to his goal. And you can be certain Uncle Sam is doing talent management by selecting the best and brightest to be a pilot these days and in this environment. So, he better be WELL QUALIFIED and prepared to step up. BTW, its an honor and privilege to serve in the military.

If you are not interested in leading/managing, you have no business in a cockpit, because airlines hire potential captains. The military is a volunteer service. True, you need to be willing to serve your country, but having a bunch of debt is not how most civilians get into aviation. It may be how many civilians were conned into getting into aviation, but borrowing a huge chunk of money you will be paying interest on is stupid. It's much better to fund it over 4 years and come out with no debt than do it in 6 months and be paying back for 10 or more years. You also seem to have pretty limited view of what the benefits are, there's a lot more to it than just having them cover flight training costs, although if you can get that, that is huge. There's also taking courses while you are in the military and extremely reduced rates, getting your Master's, being able to fund things like flight training or additional ratings, because you don't have to take out huge chunks of money and "not work" for a few months, and then pay back a bunch of interest for the "privilege", and so on.

hypnotika
10-15-2015, 03:54 AM
If you are not interested in leading/managing, you have no business in a cockpit, because airlines hire potential captains. The military is a volunteer service. True, you need to be willing to serve your country, but having a bunch of debt is not how most civilians get into aviation. It may be how many civilians were conned into getting into aviation, but borrowing a huge chunk of money you will be paying interest on is stupid. It's much better to fund it over 4 years and come out with no debt than do it in 6 months and be paying back for 10 or more years. You also seem to have pretty limited view of what the benefits are, there's a lot more to it than just having them cover flight training costs, although if you can get that, that is huge. There's also taking courses while you are in the military and extremely reduced rates, getting your Master's, being able to fund things like flight training or additional ratings, because you don't have to take out huge chunks of money and "not work" for a few months, and then pay back a bunch of interest for the "privilege", and so on.

Opinion stated. I am not going back and forth with you on military service with Uncle Sugar. Limited view? Been there, done that, have the t-shirt, and flight school paid for with benefits EARNED.. now working in the industry. If you want to drink the Officer kool-aid... by all means do so. Good day sir and you can have the last word.

@CaelumFinisDo do the math yourself, research, and make a decision on what works for you. You will probably have PPL done (sooner rather than later?). Instrument & Commercial ratings are within reach and do not require 100K in debt to get it. If you are ready to commit 8 years to the military... than do so.

rickair7777
10-15-2015, 05:11 AM
Mate, worst time to join any branch of the military due to Sequestration or mandatory cuts in defense budget. I sure hope you have zero medical issues, flawless background, perfect vision, and score high on entrance exams - in other words superstar on paper. Because in case you haven't heard the military trying to get rid of people and are being very VERY selective. Go back to college, pursue another degree maybe a Masters that makes you actually marketable. Use student loans to pay for flight training; seriously the government is subsidizing student loans and providing loans at a rate slightly above inflation - not for much longer once the Fed raises interest rates next year. Government is practically throwing free money at you and paying the interest WHILE in school. Go to a university that has a airport and some sort of affordable training/rental nearby to build time.... such as University of Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, or UC Davis. Go to accelerated training once you meet aeronautical experience for a rating/cert.

There's a grain of truth here, but the big cuts are coming from the Army, and to a lesser degree the USMC. The Navy and USAF are not being dismantled because of the strategic policy to focus on the Pacific Rim region (ie China), and that problem's not going away any time soon. The USAF may have to shrink eventually to pay for the F-35 (don't join an A-10 unit unless you enjoy flying RC airplanes).

Also the military does not do layoffs like civilian employers, it's not based on seniority or who the boss likes...they require a certain number of officers in each "year group", which is the group of folks you joined the military with. They can't just fire all the first and second LTs because then that year group would have nobody to serve as Colonels twenty years later. Force reductions are done somewhat evenly across all year groups. If it's a planned reduction, they generally will not get rid of brand-new people (why hire them in the first place?).

So the bad news is that it might be more competitive to get into a particular service right now (or maybe not if the economy is good), but the good news is that once you're in the layoffs should be over with before your year group gets too far into the career. There may be future downsizings, or there could even be growth...that's the nature of the beat.

jayrogers1306
12-17-2015, 03:30 AM
Do not enter this profession unless you are absolutely passionate about aviation and becoming a pilot. Avoid high cost universities, even though many have great reputations as respected aeronautical universities. Don't get me wrong. Because unless you have someone else footing the bills, you are going to be very poor in the first several years of your career. Try to choose a flight school that provides a direct path to employment.

Gilberto Farthi
01-01-2016, 12:38 AM
Hey CaelumFinis,
I do agree with jayrogers1306. you must have to choose a flight school that provides a direct path to employment. As one of my friends has recently joined one training center in TX which is providing several financial support options.



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