Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




tailendcharlie
10-21-2015, 08:49 AM
Anyone else click on this ad from APAS?

Thinking maybe the "Pilot Shortage" is finally making itself known - someone desperate for captains finally figured out there's a ton of high-time FO's out there who for one reason or another haven't upgraded?

Think again - reading through the requirements they still want "1,000 PIC Airline Jet."

So in other words no different than any other DEC job in China.....


OCCP
10-22-2015, 07:03 PM
Yeah, it's your typical misleading ad. Sooner or later they'll have to drop the pic or change their ridiculous hiring standards.

Kritchlow
10-22-2015, 09:22 PM
If you're typed, and sole manipulator, you can log pic regardless what you are acting as on the mission.


The Dominican
10-22-2015, 11:04 PM
If you're typed, and sole manipulator, you can log pic regardless what you are acting as on the mission.

Many companies will not accept PIC time unless you are the PIC assigned to the flight under the regulatory operations permit.

Denti
10-23-2015, 01:55 AM
I know of one european airline that has now deals with three chinese airlines to supply them with experienced FOs as captains. They have to pass the normal assessment process and then get an upgrade plus 100 block hours of supervision at home in europe before they go off and fly as captains in china, with a return option after two or three years into their former job.

PIC airline time is not required for those deals.

tailendcharlie
10-23-2015, 05:59 AM
Many companies will not accept PIC time unless you are the PIC assigned to the flight under the regulatory operations permit.

Think it's pretty much all companies.....

DCA A321 FO
10-23-2015, 03:20 PM
If you're typed, and sole manipulator, you can log pic regardless what you are acting as on the mission.


NOPE...................

atpcliff
10-23-2015, 07:03 PM
Some foreign carriers will accept P1 time as part of the PIC requirement: P1 is when u r PIC rated and operating controls...can be either as Capt or FO...helps to lesson the number of PIC hours required...

iflysky
10-23-2015, 09:30 PM
I believe, it's called PICUS (PIC under supervision) and there are some foreign airlines that credit that towards the PIC time. Normally it's not a straight credit but at a ratio of 2:1 or so.

Senior Skipper
10-23-2015, 11:47 PM
If you're typed, and sole manipulator, you can log pic regardless what you are acting as on the mission.

NOPE...................

DCA, 61.51(e)(i) (http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=596446882af8c86c760e76c9f6d092d7&mc=true&node=se14.2.61_151&rgn=div8) disagrees with you



(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, commercial, or airline transport pilot may log pilot in command flight time for flights-

(i) When the pilot is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated, or has sport pilot privileges for that category and class of aircraft, if the aircraft class rating is appropriate

Senior Skipper
10-23-2015, 11:55 PM
Many companies will not accept PIC time unless you are the PIC assigned to the flight under the regulatory operations permit.

This is true. Many companies would not accept this logged PIC time, but it is legal. Companies are interested in when you were acting as PIC, not logging PIC.

tailendcharlie
10-27-2015, 08:08 AM
If ANY foreign carriers will hire you as a DEC using your FO time while type-rated to satisfy their PIC in-type requirement I'd like to see the list.

DCA A321 FO
10-27-2015, 01:45 PM
DCA, 61.51(e)(i) (http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=596446882af8c86c760e76c9f6d092d7&mc=true&node=se14.2.61_151&rgn=div8) disagrees with you





I am well aware of that regulation, go into an interview using it, let me know how it turns out.

Thedude
10-27-2015, 05:52 PM
I am well aware of that regulation, go into an interview using it, let me know how it turns out.

I know a guy that tried it with UAL back a while.
His interview lasted 10 mins, if it was that long, before he was shown the door.


However,
I have heard of a few foreign companies accepting it.
I do know a limey that got on at EK using PIC/US as his only PIC. I don't remember what their hiring requirements were back when he was hired but I believe they did require PIC.

DCA A321 FO
10-28-2015, 07:42 AM
However,
I have heard of a few foreign companies accepting it.
I do know a limey that got on at EK using PIC/US as his only PIC. I don't remember what their hiring requirements were back when he was hired but I believe they did require PIC.

Way back when I was applying to EK, at least ten years ago, they required actual PIC time, that could have changed.

whalesurfer
10-28-2015, 02:58 PM
If you're typed, and sole manipulator, you can log pic regardless what you are acting as on the mission.

Wow, if that's not misleading I don't know what is? Why don't you log pic time whenever the captain goes back to take a leak? Just make him/her drink copious amounts of water and before you know it you'll be eligible to fly the space shuttle. :rolleyes:

Eventually things like this tend to catch up with people... Just because it's not illegal doesn't make it right...

There can only be one captain!

If you didn't sign the logbook - you are NOT the captain!

Period.

Kritchlow
10-28-2015, 06:41 PM
Wow, if that's not misleading I don't know what is? Why don't you log pic time whenever the captain goes back to take a leak? Just make him/her drink copious amounts of water and before you know it you'll be eligible to fly the space shuttle. :rolleyes:

Eventually things like this tend to catch up with people... Just because it's not illegal doesn't make it right...

There can only be one captain!

If you didn't sign the logbook - you are NOT the captain!

Period.
Say what you want but it's true. Perhaps you should study a few regs.

whalesurfer
10-28-2015, 07:17 PM
Say what you want but it's true. Perhaps you should study a few regs.

I know the regs fairly well; maybe you struggle with reading comprehension? Never said it was against the law. I'm pretty sure I said "..just because it's not illegal.."

I have volunteered for recruiting events (job fairs, interviews, etc.) at several airlines and I know that recruiters study candidates' decision making skills and they want to review decisions made by pilots who're actually in charge of the flight, in other words those who signed their names in the aircraft logbook.

You can use your tutti-fruity pic time all you want but it's not true pilot-in-command time. Sometimes it works and sometimes HR personnel catches this pseudo-legal and yet very creative flight time boosting technique.

Like I said, offer the captain as much water as you can and make sure to log it as pi$$-IC flight time..

Kritchlow
10-28-2015, 07:45 PM
I know the regs fairly well; maybe you struggle with reading comprehension? Never said it was against the law. I'm pretty sure I said "..just because it's not illegal.."

I have volunteered for recruiting events (job fairs, interviews, etc.) at several airlines and I know that recruiters study candidates' decision making skills and they want to review decisions made by pilots who're actually in charge of the flight, in other words those who signed their names in the aircraft logbook.

You can use your tutti-fruity pic time all you want but it's not true pilot-in-command time. Sometimes it works and sometimes HR personnel catches this pseudo-legal and yet very creative flight time boosting technique.

Like I said, offer the captain as much water as you can and make sure to log it as pi$$-IC flight time..
I'm not appying for anything.. I have no dog in this fight. I'm simply pointing out you can legitimately log pic time here. If an emoloyer, and I've seen many, say "acting pic" or similar than simply don't add that time. If they don't specify, than either they don't care or they don't know the rules very well.

FirstClass
11-02-2015, 03:45 AM
I know a guy that tried it with UAL back a while. No You don't
His interview lasted 10 mins, if it was that long, before he was shown the door. No it didn't




What was his name?

FirstClass
11-02-2015, 03:46 AM
There can only be one captain!

If you didn't sign the logbook - you are NOT the captain!

Period.

What logbook?

maddogmax
11-02-2015, 01:17 PM
No dog in this discussion but let me throw this out. As a A330 CA for a major US Air Line (hint) most of my flights were over 8 hours. It was crewed with me and 2 type rated FO's. I was the only one to sign the release; we didn't sign the logbook. When I would look at my company flight log, it would show the entire fight time under total time but PIC would stop at 8 hrs. When queried, I was told that since I could not be in the seat for more than 8 hours that was all they could credit me as PIC. So who got the rest of the time? This is probably just a company policy

AC560
11-03-2015, 06:16 AM
No dog in this discussion but let me throw this out. As a A330 CA for a major US Air Line (hint) most of my flights were over 8 hours. It was crewed with me and 2 type rated FO's. I was the only one to sign the release; we didn't sign the logbook. When I would look at my company flight log, it would show the entire fight time under total time but PIC would stop at 8 hrs. When queried, I was told that since I could not be in the seat for more than 8 hours that was all they could credit me as PIC. So who got the rest of the time? This is probably just a company policy

It is a company policy just like even though the FAA says sole manipulator can log PIC, nobody else views it that way.

61.51(d)(2) If rated to act as pilot in command of the aircraft, an airline transport pilot may log all flight time while acting as pilot in command of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate.

You could be sitting on the toilet and logging PIC as far as the FAA is concerned if you are acting as PIC as defined under part 1 sec 1.1.

Let's all discuss 250kts under 10,000 feet next!

NoSidNoStar
11-03-2015, 04:04 PM
Log the time the way you can legally log the time.
If you need to apply to a company, pay attention to their definition and requirements to count hours as PIC, and adjust your resume and application accordingly. Do not adjust your logbook, explain yourself. They know.
It worked for me.
As many as said, logging PIC and acting as PIC, two different things.

Kritchlow
11-04-2015, 07:12 PM
Log the time the way you can legally log the time.
If you need to apply to a company, pay attention to their definition and requirements to count hours as PIC, and adjust your resume and application accordingly. Do not adjust your logbook, explain yourself. They know.
It worked for me.
As many as said, logging PIC and acting as PIC, two different things.

Perfectly explained

Ludicrous Speed
11-06-2015, 08:21 AM
If you're typed, and sole manipulator, you can log pic regardless what you are acting as on the mission.

"Mission"? Seriously? :rolleyes:

Bahahaha!

NEDude
11-22-2015, 10:23 PM
If you're typed, and sole manipulator, you can log pic regardless what you are acting as on the mission.

But the Chinese airlines have no way of knowing. Seriously, I know of three guys flying in China who were hired based upon their legally logging PIC even though they were not the official PIC. They all had someone who was wiling to vouch for them. No U.S. airline is going to provide records or release any information to a Chinese airline. They are not required to do so, PRIA only requires records to be released to U.S. airlines, and providing them to foreign carriers exposes the U.S. airline to all sorts of legal liability. So as long as you have the PIC type rating which the FAA will vouch for, someone who can seem official willing to vouch for you, and a decent amount of actual time on the airplane so you can be competent in the sim test, there is virtually zero way a Chinese airline will know whether you PIC time is actually as PIC or just logged as PIC as sole manipulator of the controls.



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1