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View Full Version : Working in Europe - Realistic?


cave
11-21-2015, 06:43 PM
Hi,

I'm sorry if this has already been discussed, but I'd be thankful for answers. I'd love to work for an airline in Europe in the future and I'm wondering if this is actually a realistic idea. I'm a A320 captain, been working in the same airline for 8+ years, and I have the right to live and work in Europe (no citizenship though). I'm planning to get the EASA license (btw, anyone knows how much that costs and how long it takes to get it?), because I guess it's pretty much impossible otherwise to find work.

Is this realistic? Or would I probably find myself being unemployed in Europe for the rest of my life?


Thanks!


The Dominican
11-22-2015, 03:07 AM
It is realistic but it is a crude reality....., the jobs you will find are jobs that most pilots from the EU are trying to escape from..., the jobs at the majors there are very tough to get, plenty of pilots from the EU are still flooding the expat pilots market....!

Hi,

I'm sorry if this has already been discussed, but I'd be thankful for answers. I'd love to work for an airline in Europe in the future and I'm wondering if this is actually a realistic idea. I'm a A320 captain, been working in the same airline for 8+ years, and I have the right to live and work in Europe (no citizenship though). I'm planning to get the EASA license (btw, anyone knows how much that costs and how long it takes to get it?), because I guess it's pretty much impossible otherwise to find work.

Is this realistic? Or would I probably find myself being unemployed in Europe for the rest of my life?


Thanks!

acebaxter
11-22-2015, 04:50 AM
It's been a while but here is what I did to get the license. Signed up for Bristols online study guide at 75 Euro for 90 days. Self studied for the exams which I believe were 160 Euro each. Took the exams in groups of 3 or 4 depending on difficulty. When you have completed all of them you take a checkride in a simulator. If memory serves you will also need a medical for the ride. The medical is not cheap or easy for an initial issuance. It is not a NASA physical but it is thorough. This was all about 9 years ago so you may have a different experience.

Jim


cave
11-22-2015, 07:14 AM
Thank you.

Jim, so you were able to obtain the EASA license without having to quit your job and move there to study? And for the actual tests you'd have to go to the EASA headquarter or how does it work?

Yea, I've heard the job situation in Europe isn't the best. I even heard people suggesting to look for a 4 weeks on/4 weeks off contract in Asia (to live six months per year in Europe), anyone knows how difficult that is or if that's recommendable?

IQuitEagle
11-22-2015, 09:30 AM
Or you could work for Turkish Airlines, and avoid the hassle of the EASA tests. They are hiring expats, and their website says FAA license is acceptable.

HVYMETALDRVR
11-22-2015, 10:34 AM
Hi,

I'm sorry if this has already been discussed, but I'd be thankful for answers. I'd love to work for an airline in Europe in the future and I'm wondering if this is actually a realistic idea. I'm a A320 captain, been working in the same airline for 8+ years, and I have the right to live and work in Europe (no citizenship though). I'm planning to get the EASA license (btw, anyone knows how much that costs and how long it takes to get it?), because I guess it's pretty much impossible otherwise to find work.

Is this realistic? Or would I probably find myself being unemployed in Europe for the rest of my life?


Thanks!

As other have said I've heard the job market over there isn't great. A lot of guys are going to the Middle East (Emirates and Qatar offer good money, but not the best working conditions or schedule) to get some experience then are heading back home which makes things very competitive.

It sounds like you have a very competitive resume though, so besides Turkish Airways, (which is good advice I think) you could look around here in the USA at jobs that involve a lot of time spent in Europe. Basically, flying an N registered airplane over there.

NetJets does a lot of Europe flying on they're larger equipment. Miami Air International has a TDY base in Amsterdam and Bucharest, (the only catch is that the pay is crap and the upgrade is long). Atlas Air flies virtually everywhere and it is possible to commute from Europe once you get some seniority. With some seniority at Atlas you shouldn't have problem getting anywhere from 2-6 weeks off consecutive and CASS or airline points necessary to commute home. FedEx has a Germany base, although I'll admit that is one of the hardest interview calls to get right now.

If you can get a security clearance, and don't mind working in a warzone flying a TPROP? You can make a chit-ton of money with a 60-90 ON/OFF schedule. AFAIK those companies will buy you a plane ticket home at the end of deployment pretty much anywhere in the world to include Europe. I think they best contracts these days are L3 Communications and Berry Aviation, but I could be mistaken as I'm not an expert of that type of flying. Obviously, this option isn't for everyone, but it will give you long stretches of time off (60-90 days in a row) virtually anywhere you want to live.

Anyways, I hope that helps. I'm definitely not a tax expert, but I'd imagine that if you work abroad (outside Europe) you could also avoid paying as much in taxes there as well. Hope that helps, I'm just trying to give you some ideas for living in the EU, even if your not actually flying in Europe.

Good Luck! :D

galaxy flyer
11-22-2015, 01:43 PM
You won't get to fly the NetJets planes that go to Europe w/o a tin of seniority. And, it's not easy to get on with NJE.

GF

skytrekker
11-22-2015, 08:04 PM
I would agree that you should also consider Turkey.

You can contact these folks.

Naples Air Center (NAC) Flight School in Florida (http://www.naples-air-center.com)

Unless it has changed recently..

Go to the CAA House at Gatwick with completed paperwork including complete actual logbooks with times in require format, P1, P2, etc.., take initial Medical, Vision tests at CAA House, (later medical can be taken with approved medical in US), English Proficiency exam, taken online with Berlitz?, take all 14 written exams at NAC here in the US if you are approved via experience and do not require the one year of academic classroom attendance, speak with Airbus Miami seeking EASA ATP type ride with EASA approved instructor/ examiner..

There are a couple of online prep courses in the UK that have question banks for all 14 exams..Bristol is one..

The books alone are over $1000. Might find used on eBay UK.

For the exams, if you don't sit them at say NAC in Naples, these are run say quarterly, at CAA House in Gatwick. Check for accuracy but you can only fail so many of the 14 exams, and can retake only twice? Also must accomplish all 14 in a set period of time..

Also look up CAP 804 Part D

Still interested?

HVYMETALDRVR
11-22-2015, 08:47 PM
You won't get to fly the NetJets planes that go to Europe w/o a tin of seniority. And, it's not easy to get on with NJE.

GF

Do you work there? I heard they weren't getting the massive flood of qualified applicants they were expecting now with the Legacies hiring? But that's just hearsay, I've never actually applied myself.

NEDude
11-22-2015, 10:53 PM
I live in Europe and have dual U.S./E.U. citizenship. Still working on the EASA license. Have 5 of the exams completed and doing five more at Gatwick in two weeks. My wife used to work for a legacy EU airline (non flying position) and is now working for a small charter airline in crew scheduling. As a non E.U. citizen it is possible to find a job if you have an EASA license, but those jobs are few and far between. I think for a while Norwegian Air Shuttle was actually looking for EASA licensed pilots with U.S. citizenship for their long haul operation. There are a few small charter airlines that will hire without E.U. citizenship but those jobs tend not to pay all that well and give very little time off. As others have said, the jobs that would be available to foreigners are the jobs many Europeans are trying to get away from.

I am currently working on a 4/4 contract in China and that works out pretty well. Get the benefit of living in Europe but good pay and 6 months off every year.

Be careful with Turkish. They are a good airline in many aspects, but their pay is tied to the Turkish Lira which has been very volatile in recent years, so your pay is constantly fluctuating. They also do not allow commuting on the narrowbody fleet and only give 8 days off per month, so you are in Istanbul full time. Also Turkish flies to some very bad areas where you could be in hot spots regularly. They had a crew at the hotel in Mali that was just attacked and about a year or so ago they had a crew kidnapped and held hostage in Beirut.

As for the EASA license, there are places to do it less expensive than through the UK but they do not seem to have as well defined a process. Technically the process is the same, but the information is well laid out with the UK and the approvals are very quick. You have to apply for a waiver for the formal ground school process and I have been waiting 8 months for the Polish waiver, but still nothing. The UK took two days for the same waiver. You also have to make the application for the license through the authority which holds your medical records. You can do the theory exams through any authority, but all 14 must be done through one authority, not, for example, 7 through Germany and 7 through the UK. But you can do the medical in Germany, the theory exams in the UK, and the skills test through the Netherlands, then take everything back to Germany and apply for the license. With the theory exams through the UK, they have several testing centers located around the UK, one in Orlando and one in Malaysia.

acebaxter
11-23-2015, 03:58 AM
I was working over there on a license validation. All of my exams were completed in Dublin. There are not very many jobs like that available these days. Best of luck in your search I am very happy too have done it.

Jim

Normann
11-23-2015, 09:55 AM
I have been looking as well. Every once in a while there is an email for China jobs with US and EU basing. I have seen SEA, Zurick, Brussels, and some others I can't recall... They are all 330 positions though. However, with a good bit of left seat time in the 320 it is possible to get in. At least so it seems but I have never tried. I can't recall the mins anymore but if I remember correctly like 2-3k left seat in the 320 will get you into the 330. Take home advertised is around 250-300k but I am sure the Euro bases would be a bit less. The 300k range is for living in China usually on the 320. If I just could get a leave of absence from Spirit I would be all over one of these just to satisfy my big plane ego issues :D

NEDude
11-26-2015, 06:06 AM
FYI - Ryanair is now hiring pilots with ICAO/FAA licenses. Still require EU/EEA passport. But an ICAO license that can be validated by the Irish CAA is acceptable.

Not a bad deal in reality. 5 days on/4 days off roster, no planned layovers. If you can find a way to get EU/EEA citizenship (check your ancestry, particularly if you are Irish, German or Italian), it is actually not a bad job.

captjns
11-26-2015, 07:41 AM
FYI - Ryanair is now hiring pilots with ICAO/FAA licenses. Still require EU/EEA passport. But an ICAO license that can be validated by the Irish CAA is acceptable.

Not a bad deal in reality. 5 days on/4 days off roster, no planned layovers. If you can find a way to get EU/EEA citizenship (check your ancestry, particularly if you are Irish, German or Italian), it is actually not a bad job.

Was at FR. Floater... 5 days on 5 days off. Obtained a work visa and Irish validation on my license. I was given 18 months to sit for the 14 exams for the JAR (now EASA) License.

Contact Ryanair or Storm McGinley to see if an Irish work visa would suffice.

Rayeli
11-29-2015, 04:52 PM
What about Air France, Transavia, or anything in France?

NEDude
11-29-2015, 09:26 PM
What about Air France, Transavia, or anything in France?


Transavia is actually looking for experienced 737 captains right now. Check out Parc Aviation. EASA ATPL required. If Ryanair has a base in France, as I mentioned previously they are hiring non-EASA licensed pilots.

For the most part the large, formerly state owned, legacy airlines in Europe (Lufthansa, Air France, KLM, SAS, etc) will only hire nationals, who are under 30, and fluent in the official national language. There are some exceptions to it, but not many. For example for a short while last year Brussels Airlines was hiring directly into the left seat of the A320. But if you do not have an EU/EEA passport and an EASA ATPL, overall it will be very hard to find a job in Europe.

captjns
11-30-2015, 08:31 AM
Pegasus and Turkish are hiring with FAA licenses. But with what's going on in that part of the world, caution is advised.