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View Full Version : Big name schools vs local FBO


sunwonk
12-09-2015, 01:08 AM
Hello,
I want to be an airline pilot and I am in a process of choosing which flight school I should go to.
Does getting training at big name schools (flight safety, aerosim, etc...) give me more favorable chance of landing a job with regional airliners vs small, medium flight schools? In other words, do airliners care where I got my rating and hours from?


sourdough44
12-09-2015, 02:07 AM
Age? Education? No one size fits all, several roads can lead to the destination. Some of those roads are paved with higher speed limits, others more bumpy, winding, with a few hills.

The faster track is progression towards a college degree, along with quality, coordinated flight training. Then there is the $$$ issue to be taken care of. While you're at it keep that driving record clean.

sunwonk
12-09-2015, 01:42 PM
Age? Education? No one size fits all, several roads can lead to the destination. Some of those roads are paved with higher speed limits, others more bumpy, winding, with a few hills.

The faster track is progression towards a college degree, along with quality, coordinated flight training. Then there is the $$$ issue to be taken care of. While you're at it keep that driving record clean.

I am 30 with degree in electrical engineering willing to fly full time to get ratings.
So is it worth spending extra $$$ to put that NAME on my resume?


my6FOh
12-09-2015, 03:01 PM
No airline cares where you got your ratings. You're better off going somewhere you can get through training quickly and as cheap as possible.

Ditka
12-09-2015, 03:19 PM
No airline cares where you got your ratings. You're better off going somewhere you can get through training quickly and as cheap as possible.


That is not necessarily true. Delta made a point to mention it in their hiring briefs that they are looking for good well known schools.

bedrock
12-09-2015, 04:26 PM
It's best to get an idea of your aptitude first. This will help you gauge how long it will take you to get through training.

Why not find a flight instructor locally and do a sport pilot license? It's only a minimum of 20 hrs instruction and you can add a PPL to that.

Also, with actual flight experience, it will help you evaluate the various training programs out there. Some of the regionals, like Envoy, have training pipelines with various organizations. At this point, major airlines seem to be picking what regionals they want to promote and those regionals are building relationships with flight training programs.

USMCFLYR
12-09-2015, 05:33 PM
That is not necessarily true. Delta made a point to mention it in their hiring briefs that they are looking for good well known schools.
Yeah - they probably meant schools beginning with UNITED STATES.....in the name :D

Sputnik
12-10-2015, 03:51 AM
That is not necessarily true. Delta made a point to mention it in their hiring briefs that they are looking for good well known schools.

I've heard Delta cares somewhat where you got your degree, had not heard much caring about ratings.

In my worthless opinion, I would not even consider name recognition a factor in the decision making process

Betsy3927
12-10-2015, 06:27 PM
I am in the same position. With the big name school it will cost more $ but could potentially take the same amount of time. My instructor now works for Flight Safety and has some great connections for when I get through. Just want to make sure I don't have a more difficult time landing the job I want when all is said and done. Any advice?

MarkVI
12-11-2015, 06:58 AM
I, too, am currently weighing the benefits and costs of whether to fly through a local FBO or with a big-name school. The major cost, from what I can surmise, is the cost of time-building.

Big-name schools like ATP factor in all of your time-building to the cost, and charge you to rent a plane on your own for an hour. However, time building does not always have to come at that high of a price. In particular, because of the speed at which ATP's aircraft reach overhaul time amongst other reasons, they seem to charge more per hour for an aircraft rental during time building periods.

However, from what I understand, volunteering for a non-profit such as Young Eagles and Civil Air Patrol allows you to log PIC time in some cases without paying for the hours at all. In other scenarios, it seems like it's permissible to share the cost of time-building with another pilot who might perform functions vital to safety during other training periods.

FAR 61.113(c) dictates cost-sharing practices. Specifically, a pilot may not pay less than the pro rata cost in "common purpose" scenarios. Keep in mind that the FAA Chief Counsel has deemed "common purpose" to be a case-by-case evaluation. But, from my understanding after reviewing formal decisions by the FAA, it seems fair to say that two pilots wanting to fly "for general pilotage" can cost-share, and in some cases, both log time.

In these instances, it can be dramatically cheaper to obtain your next rating, as you may be able to legally split the cost, or receive hours at no-cost through volunteerism.

Getting an instrument rating requires the following, per FAR61.65:

(d) Aeronautical experience for the instrument-airplane rating. A person who applies for an instrument-airplane rating must have logged:

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, 50 hours of cross-country flight time as pilot in command, of which 10 hours must have been in an airplane; and
(2) Forty hours of actual or simulated instrument time in the areas of operation listed in paragraph (c) of this section, of which 15 hours must have been received from an authorized instructor who holds an instrument-airplane rating, and the instrument time includes:


(i) Three hours of instrument flight training from an authorized instructor in an airplane that is appropriate to the instrument-airplane rating within 2 calendar months before the date of the practical test; and
(ii) Instrument flight training on cross country flight procedures, including one cross country flight in an airplane with an authorized instructor, that is performed under instrument flight rules, when a flight plan has been filed with an air traffic control facility, and that involves--


(A) A flight of 250 nautical miles along airways or by directed routing from an air traffic control facility;
(B) An instrument approach at each airport; and

(C) Three different kinds of approaches with the use of navigation systems.



So, in specific, you realistically need a total of 100 hours minimum to receive an IFR certificate. Of that 100 hours, 50 must be cross-country, and 40 must be real or simulated IMC. Of that 40, 15 must be with an instructor. Let's call it 20 for safe practice. That means you can get 20 cross-country, simulated IMC hours without an instructor. But you don't want to be flying around on your own in simulated IMC. Traffic and safety factors wouldn't have been addressed. This allows for a safety pilot who may also log a certain portion of those hours.
(see: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2009/gebhart%20-%20(2009)%20legal%20interpretation.pdf )

So, there's ways to get your license that won't put you into as much debt, because the big-name schools don't point out that hour-building is the "primary cost" starting from "zero time" to your 250 commercial minimum. And of that 250 hours, there's many ways to reduce that cost significantly. It might take longer, but with some reading and due diligence, I think there are enough ways to make a sizable dent in flight training.

Just remember that the FAA does consider flight-hours to be "compensation" in commercial operations, and as such, a non-CPL rated pilot can not perform those duties. Lets say your flight school asks you to ferry your trainer cross-country for maintenance: you can't. That action would support the operation of a for-profit business, with compensation being given as flight hours. So, read carefully.

- MarkVI

MarkVI
12-11-2015, 09:46 AM
However, from what I understand, volunteering for a non-profit such as Young Eagles and Civil Air Patrol allows you to log PIC time in some cases without paying for the hours at all.

My apologies. When composing this, I had not taken into account FAR91.146 Passenger-carrying flights for the benefit of a charitable, nonprofit, or community event. (b)(9):

"A private pilot acting as pilot in command has at least 500 hours flight time."

This invalidates my previous statement. It also means that you'd most likely have moved on to CPL, CFI, and CFII by this point.

Austin Marshall
01-06-2016, 06:52 PM
The main thing is which certification they provide also how many flight hours they include in training.

andylewis1977
01-14-2016, 10:11 PM
Yes, You can join some airliners. I think you will get more flight our & aviation education in airliners than flight school.

JCMallory
01-29-2016, 01:30 PM
Where you received your training is only one part of the equation. Since Delta was mentioned in an earlier post, I'll reference their website with regard to how prospective pilots are evaluated.

"When evaluating the flight time of applicants meeting the basic qualifications, consideration will be given to, among other things, quality, quantity, recency, and verifiability of training; complexity of aircraft flown; types of flight operations; and hours flown as PIC in turbine powered aircraft."

I would say that you should worry less about where you go to school, and more about what you do with the training you receive. Find challenging work, do a great job. That will get you where you need to go.



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