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View Full Version : Finding a job outside of the USA


JoshH95
12-28-2015, 02:06 PM
Hey everybody, some friends and I are currently flight instructors in the U.S. but we are thinking about going overseas to work for a foreign airline company. Unfortunately we have no idea where to start looking when it comes to which airline we should be looking at and where we should go or even how to contact these airlines to figure out what the requirements are to work for them. Right now we'd like to be in Spain, France, or somewhere in that area. If anyone has advice or suggestions it would be a big help!


Csy Mon
12-28-2015, 04:07 PM
Got the European licenses and the working permits?
That and 2000 hours should land you a job in France or Spain.
(Mastering the local language may also be required, or highly respcommended)

Typhoonpilot
12-29-2015, 12:17 AM
Hey everybody, some friends and I are currently flight instructors in the U.S. but we are thinking about going overseas to work for a foreign airline company. Unfortunately we have no idea where to start looking when it comes to which airline we should be looking at and where we should go or even how to contact these airlines to figure out what the requirements are to work for them. Right now we'd like to be in Spain, France, or somewhere in that area. If anyone has advice or suggestions it would be a big help!



You are a new member so perhaps a little guidance is in order.

As stated in the first response, to work in Europe you would need to have an EASA license and the right to work in the EU. The first one is a little difficult in itself because you would have to take the 14 written exams for the EASA license, which takes quite a bit of study. Assuming your desire is strong enough to make it past that hurdle, the second hurdle of right to work is even more difficult. Best bet would be to marry a European woman, or hope that you have a parent that is from Europe and you can get citizenship.

Europe itself is a pretty bad market for pilots. The plethora of low cost start-ups has really driven down the pay and working conditions there. That, and what seems to be an unlimited supply of rich British kids who buy type ratings in the A320 and B737 to get jobs at these low cost start-ups, and sometimes even buy flight time on those aircraft. That's your competition. Still interested?

If you really want to work overseas, it can be done, but it's usually in places like Asia and the Middle East. It takes a stepping stone approach that many have done successfully. It's doubtful you can go straight from flight instructing though. You'll need to get time in twins and then in either turboprops or smaller jets. Then you might be able to swing a job in a larger jet as a first officer, although you would likely be bonded for 3-5 years.

I type all this, and am sitting here thinking why you would want to do that when the USA is THE PLACE to be right now. The U.S. majors are hiring like they haven't hired since the 1980s. That is creating a lot of potential to move up and get experience in the USA. I'd stay put if I were you. Get to the point where you are at least a regional jet captain before looking at going overseas.



Typhoonpilot


P.S. You can also use the search function in this forum to look for numerous past threads on topics like this.


NEDude
12-29-2015, 01:35 AM
Don't know if this is still an option but at one point Lufthansa was hiring American instructors for its flight school in AZ. After a few years there was the opportunity to go to Germany and work in their training center there. It was not a route to flying for Lufthansa but it could possible open other doors.

As for working in Europe, as Typhoonpilot mentioned, getting the right to work can be difficult. Marrying a girl from Europe helps. Some countries do allow citizenship to pass down. If you have a parent or grandparent who was born in Ireland you can claim citizenship (I was fortunate to have a grandparent born in Ireland so that is how I landed my Irish citizenship). Germany has a path to citizenship through ancestry and I know someone who has done it through Italy as well.

JoshH95
01-09-2016, 10:53 AM
Thank you guys for the response. As I said we are just starting and are still learning what is a good idea and bad idea. You're posts have been a tremendous help!

AsianSensastion
01-10-2016, 02:24 AM
If you want to go overseas get your command FIRST then go out! It's really hard to upgrade overseas. Now you can upgrade very fast at many regionals and once you get your 500-1000 TPIC on the RJ there are TONS of jobs that pay very well including transitions to Boeing/Airbus from the RJ. Nothing in Europe for Americans though, mostly China and Asia and of course the ME. Good luck!!!

IQuitEagle
01-10-2016, 06:50 AM
Hey everybody, some friends and I are currently flight instructors in the U.S. but we are thinking about going overseas to work for a foreign airline company. Unfortunately we have no idea where to start looking when it comes to which airline we should be looking at and where we should go or even how to contact these airlines to figure out what the requirements are to work for them. Right now we'd like to be in Spain, France, or somewhere in that area. If anyone has advice or suggestions it would be a big help!

As for Spain, last I heard was that while you may have the proper work documents to be an FO, to be a CA at a Spanish airline, you must be an actual citizen of Spain.

zondaracer
01-10-2016, 07:54 PM
I lived in Spain for a few years. First of all, to work in Spain or France you need EU citizenship or right to work. I got right to work through marriage of a European citizen.

Secondly, you'll need the EASA license. It took me a full year and close to $17,000 to do the license conversion.

Then you gotta find a job. Way more pilots than jobs. Many airline jobs will only hire EU citizens, but there are a couple that hire those with right to work. But there are way more pilots than jobs. Also, many of the airline jobs are hiring those with type ratings and time on type already. Also, many companies in Europe are charging up to €30,000 for type ratings and P2F is becoming quite common. You are much better off staying in the US and building some time and heading to Asia or the Middle East if you really want to go abroad. Europe is an uphill slope right now.

You could also check out Copa in Panama but last I heard, they were talking about furloughs. Copa does hire foreigners though when they hire.

The Dominican
01-10-2016, 10:42 PM
You could also check out Copa in Panama but last I heard, they were talking about furloughs. Copa does hire foreigners though when they hire.

That's just internet chatter...., I have a couple of friends that got hired not too long ago and Copa just placed a big order of 61 A/C's

NEDude
01-11-2016, 03:54 AM
I lived in Spain for a few years. First of all, to work in Spain or France you need EU citizenship or right to work. I got right to work through marriage of a European citizen.

Secondly, you'll need the EASA license. It took me a full year and close to $17,000 to do the license conversion.

Then you gotta find a job. Way more pilots than jobs. Many airline jobs will only hire EU citizens, but there are a couple that hire those with right to work. But there are way more pilots than jobs. Also, many of the airline jobs are hiring those with type ratings and time on type already. Also, many companies in Europe are charging up to 30,000 for type ratings and P2F is becoming quite common. You are much better off staying in the US and building some time and heading to Asia or the Middle East if you really want to go abroad. Europe is an uphill slope right now.

You could also check out Copa in Panama but last I heard, they were talking about furloughs. Copa does hire foreigners though when they hire.

SAS is one of the European airlines that does not require EU citizenship. They do require the unrestricted right to live and work in the EU, which I am not sure how you can get that without being an EU citizen. From the way I read it when I first moved to Europe that even permanent residence in one country does not pass to other EU countries. Could be wrong though, it is pretty complicated. Anyway, if you do find a way to get the unrestricted right to live and work in Europe, SAS also requires Berlitz level 4 qualification in a Scandinavian language (Danish, Norwegian or Swedish).

Europe may be tough, but there are opportunities. My wife's airline cannot get enough pilots. EasyJet has opportunities in Portugal right now. Ryanair, Norwegian, WizzAir, and SAS are all actively hiring right now. Last year Small Planet Airlines was open to the idea of hiring non-EASA licensed pilots on a validation, not sure if they still are though.

But overwhelmingly so, if you want Europe you will need EU citizenship and the EASA license.

IQuitEagle
01-11-2016, 06:02 AM
SAS is one of the European airlines that does not require EU citizenship. They do require the unrestricted right to live and work in the EU, which I am not sure how you can get that without being an EU citizen. From the way I read it when I first moved to Europe that even permanent residence in one country does not pass to other EU countries. Could be wrong though, it is pretty complicated.

This is correct. Unlike an EU citizen, a permanent resident is not entitled to live and work in another EU country without obtaining the documents for that country.

NEDude
01-11-2016, 02:40 PM
This is correct. Unlike an EU citizen, a permanent resident is not entitled to live and work in another EU country without obtaining the documents for that country.

The only way I could see it possibly work is if you are married to an EU citizen. If you are married to an EU citizen you generally have the legal right to live and work in whatever country your EU spouse lives in. There are some exceptions, the biggest being if your spouse has never exercised his or her EU free movement rights. But I do not know if that would count under the definition of unrestricted right to live and work in the EU.

Really the best thing to do if you want to fly in Europe permanently is do some genealogy research as several of the EU countries will grant citizenship, or have an expedited naturalisation process, to descendants of their citizens. I had a grandparent born in Ireland and was able to register in the Foreign Births Register and claim Irish citizenship (I did not realise I was eligible until about a year after I moved to Europe, so I went through the application process for family reunification in the country where my wife was from - knowing ahead of time would have saved a lot of stress) . If you have a parent born in Ireland then Ireland already considers you a citizen and you can just apply for your passport. Germany has ways to pass down citizenship through generations and if you have some Jewish ancestors from Germany it becomes even easier in some cases. I have a friend who was able to claim Italian citizenship through his ancestry too. Spain and Portugal will grant residence and expedited naturalisation to certain descendants of their former citizens. Another friend from Brazil recently acquired Spanish citizenship this way (yes Spain, not Portugal). I believe Poland also has a way to acquire citizenship through ancestry as well. In most cases these are not quick, it can take over a year to get it done. It took about a year to be registered in the FBR in Ireland. The friend who got his Italian citizenship took almost three years to go through the process and had to visit the Italian consulate five times during those three years. My Brazilian friend worked on his Spanish citizenship for over a year and a half. So even if you have the ancestry, don't expect anything to happen overnight.

If you do not have any ancestry that helps, then marriage to an EU citizen can in most cases expedite the process. Research carefully though as some countries will grant citizenship to a spouse in as little as two years, while others will still make you wait the better part of a decade. Many countries require fluency in the national language too and in some cases that can be quite difficult. Switzerland (not EU but with virtually the same rights) will grant citizenship to a person married to a Swiss citizen even if they do not live in Switzerland as long as you have been married six years and your spouse still holds "close ties" to Switzerland.

NEDude
01-11-2016, 03:47 PM
Sorry to add more but here is one more piece of advice to consider if you really want to move outside the States. Consider the potential effect of FATCA. If you maintain an address and most/all of your accounts in the States then it may not be an issue. But if you move your entire live abroad with no plans to ever return, or even begin to open bank accounts overseas, then FATCA and the U.S. tax issues can begin to become a major issue. Do you research into that as well.

Natca
01-14-2016, 12:57 PM
Take a look at solenta in south africa if you want to see the nasty places of the real world



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