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Jc2016
02-01-2016, 01:38 PM
Hey guys,

Just exploring my options here, I like my QOL here at AWAC, but the uncertainty that we will continue kills me. I know other regionals out there are offering great things. just want to make sure I am doing the correct thing.

PS: there are a lot of FO's leaving, the month of January 19 left. which means slow upgrade since no one is coming here.


SevereClear1
02-01-2016, 01:39 PM
Are the people leaving making lateral moves?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

schmohawk
02-01-2016, 02:03 PM
How do you know 19 FO's left?

2016 is going to be a big year for hiring at the major. I would expect to see a lot of movement at all regionals.


PotatoChip
02-01-2016, 02:05 PM
I would in a heartbeat for many reasons.

Jc2016
02-01-2016, 02:05 PM
I can't say they are, I know a couple that had in the past though. the monthly resignation list says that more Fo's are leaving than captains.

Fleron270
02-01-2016, 02:12 PM
The 19 FOs resigning comes from our crew availability page. And there's a separate part for training failures. I know a few that have made lateral moves to other regionals. If you're near 1000 SIC, I see no reason not to move to another regional with a quick upgrade and growth.

There are already at least 2 FOs and 4 Captains that have resigned this month. The total seniority list has shrunk by 50+ pilots since September.

wise810
02-01-2016, 02:33 PM
The 19 FOs resigning comes from our crew availability page. And there's a separate part for training failures. I know a few that have made lateral moves to other regionals. If you're near 1000 SIC, I see no reason not to move to another regional with a quick upgrade and growth.

There is already at least 1 FO and Captain that resigned this month. The total seniority list has shrunk by 50+ pilots since September.

Be careful chasing a golden ring.
PDT is a small airline with major issues in training now; not unexpected given their attempt to grow and get into the jet business with the 145:
Top talent is leaving/has left for Mainline via flow.
Others are moving to the jet.
Remainder of an overloaded training dept is trying to absorb new hire FOs, upgrades to left seat, and CQ student load. New hires are waiting months, not weeks, to even start sims. The Dash is a labor intensive airplane to learn; just the way it is, but end result is the recruiting numbers and tng dept production numbers do not match. Late Jan I talked to an 8/17 new hire who was still on SOE.
I understand AWAC as a non-wholly owned may have an uncertain future, but you may be better served by going to Envoy or PSA, both wholly-owned, both with a flow to AA, and both fly jets. PSA with their RJs (including inbound 900s), would be a simple conversion for you. Best of luck in your decision!

2Planez
02-01-2016, 02:43 PM
Stay at ZW until you know what "the end" looks like, or if it's even real. The economy is sliding right now... You don't want to get stuck somewhere you don't want to be. Or maybe AA buys ZW and you end up at PDT anyway, but with your seniority intact. Very unlikely you'll just end up on the street, and even if they did just close up shop, you'd be looking at exactly what you're looking at now. In my opinion, there's nothing to gain. Don't be the whipsaw. Dont do something you may regret immediately.

Qwerty320
02-01-2016, 02:49 PM
Stay at ZW until you know what "the end" looks like, or if it's even real. The economy is sliding right now... You don't want to get stuck somewhere you don't want to be. Or maybe AA buys ZW and you end up at PDT anyway, but with your seniority intact. Very unlikely you'll just end up on the street, and even if they did just close up shop, you'd be looking at exactly what you're looking at now. In my opinion, there's nothing to gain. Don't be the whipsaw. Dont do something you may regret immediately.

Lol. yeah stay there, waste time and seniority by waiting to see what the end game is. I made a lateral move and I do not regret it. Don't make a bad situation worse by waiting and losing senority. If your going to leave, leave now. Just my two cents....

Fleron270
02-01-2016, 02:59 PM
Lol. yeah stay there, waste time and seniority by waiting to see what the end game is. I made a lateral move and I do not regret it. Don't make a bad situation worse by waiting and losing senority. If your going to leave, leave now. Just my two cents....

Agreed. This is like waiting until the end of a concert to leave. Everyone else is going to be trying to make the same lateral moves you are.

PotatoChip
02-01-2016, 03:08 PM
Agreed. This is like waiting until the end of a concert to leave. Everyone else is going to be trying to make the same lateral moves you are.

Except staying until the end of a concert is awesome if you love the band.......

sweetholyjesus
02-01-2016, 03:33 PM
Not sure why an FO with decent time would move laterally while LCCs are hiring without TPIC? If you have the time may as well move up and get typed in something bigger. Even Allegiant has to be better than the best regional, right.......?

ThreeStripe
02-01-2016, 03:50 PM
Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sweetholyjesus
02-01-2016, 04:04 PM
OK well maybe not Allegiant lol

Farmlover
02-01-2016, 04:19 PM
Endeavor's upgrade time is about to drop quickly. Come on over

Lawn
02-01-2016, 04:26 PM
Except staying until the end of a concert is awesome if you love the band.......

Yeah, who leaves a concert early? Stay at AirWis because we need FO's to upgrade more :)

Hawaiiavi8er
02-01-2016, 04:29 PM
Hey guys,

Just exploring my options here, I like my QOL here at AWAC, but the uncertainty that we will continue kills me. I know other regionals out there are offering great things. just want to make sure I am doing the correct thing.

PS: there are a lot of FO's leaving, the month of January 19 left. which means slow upgrade since no one is coming here.
Crazy to think that 5 years ago awac was one of the best spots to be and now people are talking about jumping ship for commute air.

surreal1221
02-01-2016, 04:40 PM
Endeavor's upgrade time is about to drop quickly. Come on over


And why is that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PotatoChip
02-01-2016, 05:13 PM
Crazy to think that 5 years ago awac was one of the best spots to be and now people are talking about jumping ship for commute air.

No joke.

"Best place to be" can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. The industry is changing fast, and hopefully that results in net-positive changes for all of us.

billyho
02-01-2016, 06:13 PM
Piedmont was in the same boat 5 years ago. Everyone was leaving because of an uncertain future.

Many went to Republic and to AWAC. Now look at them? I guess what I'm saying is you never really know.
Anything new on AWAC Ta? That will give some insight into their future.

Name User
02-01-2016, 06:19 PM
I personally don't see AWAC in AA's long term plan. Short term yes, long term....no. OP if you are a relative new hire I would leave in a heartbeat. If you have 3+ yrs in the decision is a little but more difficult.

sweetholyjesus
02-01-2016, 06:21 PM
Piedmont was in the same boat 5 years ago. Everyone was leaving because of an uncertain future.

Many went to Republic and to AWAC. Now look at them? I guess what I'm saying is you never really know.
Anything new on AWAC Ta? That will give some insight into their future.
None whatsoever, but if you ever wanna visit Philly on the cheap just do a quick interview and they'll give you $100 for the hotel and even fly you out there for free :):)

rbtower2
02-01-2016, 06:27 PM
Hey guys,

Just exploring my options here, I like my QOL here at AWAC, but the uncertainty that we will continue kills me. I know other regionals out there are offering great things. just want to make sure I am doing the correct thing.

PS: there are a lot of FO's leaving, the month of January 19 left. which means slow upgrade since no one is coming here.

I think it would be a smart move unless you are very close to upgrade. You can get up to $15000 bonus coming to CommutAir and you will upgrade in less than a year, especially with already having 121 time. You will also have a chance to flow to United if you pass the Hogan and 45 minute United interview.

FirstClass
02-01-2016, 06:30 PM
Hey guys,

Just exploring my options here, I like my QOL here at AWAC, but the uncertainty that we will continue kills me. I know other regionals out there are offering great things. just want to make sure I am doing the correct thing.

PS: there are a lot of FO's leaving, the month of January 19 left. which means slow upgrade since no one is coming here.

Are you an FO or Captain? How long have you been there?

Jc2016
02-01-2016, 06:53 PM
Are you an FO or Captain? How long have you been there?
I am an FO with more than 1000 121, I have been there a little over two years, and I am on the top third of the FO list. The fact that I am gaining seniority not by upgrades, but FO's leaving is making me feel like I should to. Unfortunately, PDT will be a huge pay cut. Commut air would be a pay increase with all the bonuses, but a commute to reserve. Someone once told me don't get comfortable at a regional, but with a family to take care off it is hard not to, especially with the killer insurance they have here. Part of me says stick around maybe AWAC will get a flow or by the time this place goes under I will be interviewing at a major or maybe a legacy. The other side says go now, pay dues once again and now wait for ur time or a phone call.

FODhopper
02-01-2016, 08:29 PM
I am an FO with more than 1000 121, I have been there a little over two years, and I am on the top third of the FO list. The fact that I am gaining seniority not by upgrades, but FO's leaving is making me feel like I should to. Unfortunately, PDT will be a huge pay cut. Commut air would be a pay increase with all the bonuses, but a commute to reserve. Someone once told me don't get comfortable at a regional, but with a family to take care off it is hard not to, especially with the killer insurance they have here. Part of me says stick around maybe AWAC will get a flow or by the time this place goes under I will be interviewing at a major or maybe a legacy. The other side says go now, pay dues once again and now wait for ur time or a phone call.


You are chasing ghosts...based on the time you have in...you will lose ground moving laterally.

billyho
02-02-2016, 03:02 AM
You are chasing ghosts...based on the time you have in...you will lose ground moving laterally.

Depends. If you go to a company that has continuous movement you'll be better off. Believe me I know friends at Piedmont that upgraded and were Reserve Captain for 3 years and it SUCKED!! Now with the flow and RJ's coming it's a totally different story.
He could upgrade at AWAC but what would his QOL be with out much movement? AWAC is top heavy with senior Captains who aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Only people leaving are Junior Captains and Junior FO's.

I'm not saying leave, but you'll have a much better QOL with a company that has movement compared to stagnation.

CAirBear
02-02-2016, 03:08 AM
Flew a flight with PP last week. Next upgrade class will be May... Claims we don't have enough FOs to upgrade more. I really don't know what to believe. Everyday FO RSV Avl is extremely high with little to no Open Time trips. I can get turns dropped without any issue.

They definitely are short CAs looking at the RSV chart and the amount of Jr. Mans I know some guys have been getting. They still seem to be absolutely clueless with recruiting. I mean wake up. He said they are running 2 classes a month. Sounds great, until you hear this last one has TWO and last months were 4 a piece. Given our incredible 100% success rate in our training dept, things are just going great!

As for bailing, (unless your very junior), I don't get it. The numbers aren't BS. 18,000 retirements are happening in just 6 years. Do you honestly think the only way any of us are getting to a legacy (or anywhere beyond RJs) is by absolutely having to have TPIC? Sure right now, as of Feb 2nd, 2016 it probably does help (to an extent), but in 2 years (if we did close he doors)?

Stick to where your QOL is the best. If for some reason it sucks here, sure go ahead. For me, 2.5 years here (not horribly far from upgrade) I'm not bailing. I have great schedules and enjoy it here. The grass isn't always greener.

billyho
02-02-2016, 04:39 AM
As for bailing, (unless your very junior), I don't get it. The numbers aren't BS. 18,000 retirements are happening in just 6 years. Do you honestly think the only way any of us are getting to a legacy (or anywhere beyond RJs) is by absolutely having to have TPIC? Sure right now, as of Feb 2nd, 2016 it probably does help (to an extent), but in 2 years (if we did close he doors)?

Stick to where your QOL is the best. If for some reason it sucks here, sure go ahead. For me, 2.5 years here (not horribly far from upgrade) I'm not bailing. I have great schedules and enjoy it here. The grass isn't always greener.

I agree if your QOL is good then stick it out. When I was at PDT and everyone was bailing I was still happy living in base. 5 minute drive to the airport, living on the water, friends with boats. Life was great, why mess that up? Instead on chasing another airline for an upgrade ask yourself are you 'happy'. Like my father said, 'don't mess with happy'. Now if you're not happy at AWAC then that's a totally different story. Believe me I know what it feels like to be flying with a bunch of pilots that are 'gloom and doom' and it can be frustrating. Don't let those folks get you down, you only have yourself to make happy.

I agree there will be plenty of hiring however I do believe for awhile PIC time will still be important especially since many of the regional folks will be competing against tons of Military Pilots now getting out and flooding the majors. Seemed like 90% of the interview classes at American were Military Pilots. Then again how many of them will be around also.

If you make a lateral move just make sure it improves your QOL.
But I will say if you make the move NEVER look back.

Good Luck! Sounds like a tough decision.

Waitingformins
02-02-2016, 04:59 AM
Ask yourself what your expectations were when you took the job. Are those expectations still obtainable? What do you know now that you didn't know 2 years ago? Have you looked at the Goject captians announcements that are on here? You must not really want to leave, and just think you should, PSA was hireing street captians this past year and may have been a good fit for yourself.
I say stay until you leave for something you know you want, you'll know, you'll be able to go home to your family tell them you have a plan, even if there is some sort term pain.

sandrich
02-02-2016, 05:58 AM
If it helps your decision (if United is your goal), I had a meet-and-greet with a UA chief pilot recently. One thing he told me was DO NOT chase PIC time... While PIC time is good, there's many other things you can do to get points on your app. Too many times does chasing a DEC or quick upgrade lead in divorce, furlough, etc. Either the numbers don't work out, the airline doesn't get the jets they were expecting, whatever the scenario may be. United prefers guys that value their time AT home, not away from it. If you could explain your decision to stay to a recruiter/interviewer, you may not be in a bad spot. If you could make the switch, recover your pay, live in base, and log PIC time all at the same time it's a no brainier. But if you're taking a pay cut, commuting to reserve, left with 5 days at home a month, how much is your life worth to you?

If you got on at C5/PDT, it'll take you 2 years to log the magic 1000 TPIC on reserve. Will it even be required by then? You may be able to make it there on your own in that amount of time. Take a union or safety position. Reach out to anyone you know that's gotten hired at your goal airline, have them write you letters. Anyone from mainline that jump seats, ask for their card. You never know who's going to walk through that cockpit door. And as much as it sucks, get to career fairs. Every attendance list you're on gets you more points. Try getting on with an LLC to wait it out, maybe even Atlas.

amcnd
02-02-2016, 06:12 AM
Leaving is a gamble... I left Eagle after 9/11. For a lateral move. Well that paid off. Lived in a base so no more commute and upgaded in 2 years. The last 13 have been awesome. Had i stayed at Eagle the i would be flowing/ in class to AA with the rest of my class mates right now.. But would i give up the last 13 years, being home most nights and no comute to be at AA?? What i say is look 5 years out. Thats all you can do to make the best decision.. Good luck..

block30
02-02-2016, 06:29 AM
Gees, I feel for ya man (woman?). I am surprised to hear this from Air Wis....I would think a couple other regionals have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel more so than Air Whiskey does.

IF you are going to move laterally, and IF you like Endeavor's bases, you might at least give Endeavor a look based on things like good regional first year FO pay, and reasonable upgrade time, plus guaranteed interview at Delta. But if you like Commute Air or PDT's career progression to mainline better, by all means go there.

RJtrashPilot
02-02-2016, 06:31 AM
I have been sitting on the sideline for a while but felt the need to enter this conversation before people make a mistake. Don’t count Air Wisconsin out for the count just yet. I have several friends who landed their after Comair closed and they couldn’t be happier with the work rules and benefits compared to the other places they could have gone. At that same time others were migrating there from the likes of Pinnacle/Endeavor, Eagle/Envoy, and PSA just to name a few. The one thing I know about Air Wisconsin is they are crafty and if I am to believe the rumors I hear they are on the cusp of their own positive announcement later this year that I don’t expect to be an “Agreement in Principle”. When this happens I expect to see FOs flock from the likes of Republic, CommutAir, GoJet, Trans States and others.

prex8390
02-02-2016, 06:34 AM
Flew a flight with PP last week. Next upgrade class will be May... Claims we don't have enough FOs to upgrade more. I really don't know what to believe. Everyday FO RSV Avl is extremely high with little to no Open Time trips. I can get turns dropped without any issue.

They definitely are short CAs looking at the RSV chart and the amount of Jr. Mans I know some guys have been getting. They still seem to be absolutely clueless with recruiting. I mean wake up. He said they are running 2 classes a month. Sounds great, until you hear this last one has TWO and last months were 4 a piece. Given our incredible 100% success rate in our training dept, things are just going great!

As for bailing, (unless your very junior), I don't get it. The numbers aren't BS. 18,000 retirements are happening in just 6 years. Do you honestly think the only way any of us are getting to a legacy (or anywhere beyond RJs) is by absolutely having to have TPIC? Sure right now, as of Feb 2nd, 2016 it probably does help (to an extent), but in 2 years (if we did close he doors)?

Stick to where your QOL is the best. If for some reason it sucks here, sure go ahead. For me, 2.5 years here (not horribly far from upgrade) I'm not bailing. I have great schedules and enjoy it here. The grass isn't always greener.

They let you drop stuff? Quite literally the last 15 or so things I have submitted have been denied due to lack of FO availability. Maybe Orf was a bad choice. Even stupid day trips are getting getting denied. The heck am I doing wrong?

Flubber
02-02-2016, 06:37 AM
Flew a flight with PP last week. Next upgrade class will be May... Claims we don't have enough FOs to upgrade more. I really don't know what to believe. Everyday FO RSV Avl is extremely high with little to no Open Time trips. I can get turns dropped without any issue.

Ah, yeah. How many times in the past few weeks has CS been proffering requests for FOs to put their drops in since they're so fat (availability, not the FOs!)? In the meantime, one can count the number of available CAs on two hands on a good day - but you'll still have fingers left over.

As far as attrition goes, more FOs may be resigning than Captains, but we do have some number of guys who have either prior 121 time (think Comair) and more guys who are detaching from the military and coming here to get current so they can get the look-see from greener pastures. I also think we're beginning to see some of the more senior guys finally pulling the cord and moving on.

Pardon the typos... cheap portable keyboard is just that! :eek:

prex8390
02-02-2016, 06:39 AM
Am I the only FO here who can't get ANYTHING dropped??

Flubber
02-02-2016, 06:40 AM
They let you drop stuff? Quite literally the last 15 or so things I have submitted have been denied due to lack of FO availability. Maybe Orf was a bad choice. Even stupid day trips are getting getting denied. The heck am I doing wrong?

Maybe you made Scheduling's "List?" :D

J/K - 25 RSV FOs doesn't do you much good if 20 of 'em are in PHL...

ChipChelios
02-02-2016, 07:01 AM
No matter where you go, it's always a gamble. You never know how good your hand is until all the cards are on the table. I left Pinnacle after being downgraded and displaced from Colgan because I was projected to be furloughed only 3 years ago. I came to AWAC and by the time I upgrade, I would have re-upgraded at Endeavor.
I might have well just have stayed put.

I say, if you are willing to hold your cards and up your bet by staying it's a big gamble but that's the only way to reap the big rewards. If the worst does happen in a couple of years, you won't have any problems finding employment at another airline!

BobJenkins
02-02-2016, 07:05 AM
I like this thread. So far, not too off topic. And not one snotty remark telling the OP to "man up and do some research" or "use the search function, that's what it's there for". Constructive comments. Good advice. It's been nice to read it.

Hopefully this trend will continue when a noob comes to APC asking (what may seem silly or obvious) questions. That would be nice, indeed.

schmohawk
02-02-2016, 07:27 AM
Am I the only FO here who can't get ANYTHING dropped??

When I was ORF based it was very difficult to get anything dropped. In DCA I've been able to drop entire 4 day trips

billyho
02-02-2016, 07:44 AM
I like this thread. So far, not too off topic. And not one snotty remark telling the OP to "man up and do some research" or "use the search function, that's what it's there for". Constructive comments. Good advice. It's been nice to read it.

Hopefully this trend will continue when a noob comes to APC asking (what may seem silly or obvious) questions. That would be nice, indeed.

I was thinking the same thing. Bunch of Positive inputs.

Lawn
02-02-2016, 07:49 AM
I was thinking the same thing. Bunch of Positive inputs.

I'm actually surprised at how billyho has changed since leaving PDT. It's actually kind of nice to see how you contribute rather than flame away. Dare I say it's a welcome change to AWAC threads?

Realtalk
02-02-2016, 07:51 AM
Commute to RSV?? I think that would be a mistake. Especially if you live in base at AWAC. A old captain at mainline once told me to go to each airline and pretend it will be your last. Not saying you always will, but "could" you be happy there. Regionals are a different story obviously, pending any political/monetary catastrophe I think the next few years people will all move on. But that being said starting over at the bottom would be tough.

billyho
02-02-2016, 08:02 AM
I'm actually surprised at how billyho has changed since leaving PDT. It's actually kind of nice to see how you contribute rather than flame away. Dare I say it's a welcome change to AWAC threads?

hahaha, I've never flamed. It was just some people didn't like hearing what I had to say.:D

ChipChelios
02-02-2016, 08:03 AM
Not to mention...AWAC lost the United flying during a time when there was little to no work out there for anyone! Having a contract end during a time of need should be no problem. There is plenty of work out there for everyone! A good, smart, pragmatic, group of business owners know how to adapt to the environment they are working in. When the time comes to adapt, it will happen. The question will be, will the pilots of AWAC be a help or hindrance.

Jc2016
02-02-2016, 09:15 AM
Guys, I wanted to thank you for all the input. My wife and I decided to stay with AWAC, I really like it here, plus leaving in base with a family its something else. Plus there is always a chance that AWAC will continue. I figure that in 2-3 years with my time I might land a job at a major at least(crossing fingers). I was hesitant to post here since there is a lot of negativity, but i am glad this thread stayed on point. Hopefully these cheese heads do a better job recruiting, instead of giving 100 dollar gift card.
Thanks Again.

idlethrust
02-02-2016, 09:18 AM
Guys, I wanted to thank you for all the input. My wife and I decided to stay with AWAC, I really like it here, plus leaving in base with a family its something else. Plus there is always a chance that AWAC will continue. I figure that in 2-3 years with my time I might land a job at a major at least(crossing fingers). I was hesitant to post here since there is a lot of negativity, but i am glad this thread stayed on point. Hopefully these cheese heads do a better job recruiting, instead of giving 100 dollar gift card.
Thanks Again.
Unless Awac is buying some new aircraft and getting rid of all of those old,beat to hell 200's,they won't be able to secure any new flying. ....period.

billyho
02-02-2016, 09:39 AM
Guys, I wanted to thank you for all the input. My wife and I decided to stay with AWAC, I really like it here, plus leaving in base with a family its something else. Plus there is always a chance that AWAC will continue. I figure that in 2-3 years with my time I might land a job at a major at least(crossing fingers). I was hesitant to post here since there is a lot of negativity, but i am glad this thread stayed on point. Hopefully these cheese heads do a better job recruiting, instead of giving 100 dollar gift card.
Thanks Again.

Living in base is da bomb! Probably a smart move. You'll know when to bail out and right now I don't think that writing is on the AWAC wall just yet.

lalo
02-02-2016, 09:40 AM
Unless Awac is buying some new aircraft and getting rid of all of those old,beat to hell 200's,they won't be able to secure any new flying. ....period.

So why are other airlines acquiring 50-seaters if there is not a place in the market for them?

Battlinbear
02-02-2016, 10:35 AM
Guys, I wanted to thank you for all the input. My wife and I decided to stay with AWAC, I really like it here, plus leaving in base with a family its something else. Plus there is always a chance that AWAC will continue. I figure that in 2-3 years with my time I might land a job at a major at least(crossing fingers). I was hesitant to post here since there is a lot of negativity, but i am glad this thread stayed on point. Hopefully these cheese heads do a better job recruiting, instead of giving 100 dollar gift card.
Thanks Again.


I believe you have made a great decision. Fate truly is the hunter. When I cfiing, and grinding to get a 1000 hours TT to get on w skywest or horizon in 06-07. My friends who were at regionals (whiskey,envoy,psa, pinnacle) said it might be time to get on w a regional who is hiring with less, and has quick upgrades. I chose Pdt and moved across the country. Sat rsv for almost 2 years before being furloughed for 10 months. (Lucky, I was still in early 20s and moved home and flew a seaplane for a few months to keep me doing what I love) 1 month after pdt recalled me I was offered a interview and job at compass. Had to make the decision to jump or stay. Said to myself, ya know today's greatest airline is tomorrows worst and vise versa. Pdt at that time was bottom of the barrel. Decided to stay put. Lived in base. Pay was horrible.. But, I finally got my shot to upgrade...Few years later. Was only on ca rsv 9 months now 15 in base out of 42. Way I see it. WHISKEY ISN'T GOING ANYWHERE. And things will move it the right direction very soon. Obviously not as fast at pdt cause we are so small. For what it is worth, I say you made the rigjt decision to not jump laterally. Someone mentioned go to airline like it is your last. Get your seniority number and hold on to it! Best of luck to you and your future.

Name User
02-02-2016, 10:43 AM
I believe you have made a great decision. Fate truly is the hunter. When I cfiing, and grinding to get a 1000 hours TT to get on w skywest or horizon in 06-07. My friends who were at regionals (whiskey,envoy,psa, pinnacle) said it might be time to get on w a regional who is hiring with less, and has quick upgrades. I chose Pdt and moved across the country. Sat rsv for almost 2 years before being furloughed for 10 months. (Lucky, I was still in early 20s and moved home and flew a seaplane for a few months to keep me doing what I love) 1 month after pdt recalled me I was offered a interview and job at compass. Had to make the decision to jump or stay. Said to myself, ya know today's greatest airline is tomorrows worst and vise versa. Pdt at that time was bottom of the barrel. Decided to stay put. Lived in base. Pay was horrible.. But, I finally got my shot to upgrade...Few years later. Was only on ca rsv 9 months now 15 in base out of 42. Way I see it. WHISKEY ISN'T GOING ANYWHERE. And things will move it the right direction very soon. Obviously not as fast at pdt cause we are so small. For what it is worth, I say you made the rigjt decision to not jump laterally. Someone mentioned go to airline like it is your last. Get your seniority number and hold on to it! Best of luck to you and your future.

Just think had you gone to Compass you'd be at Delta now.

FirstClass
02-02-2016, 10:54 AM
I am an FO with more than 1000 121, I have been there a little over two years, and I am on the top third of the FO list. The fact that I am gaining seniority not by upgrades, but FO's leaving is making me feel like I should to. Unfortunately, PDT will be a huge pay cut. Commut air would be a pay increase with all the bonuses, but a commute to reserve. Someone once told me don't get comfortable at a regional, but with a family to take care off it is hard not to, especially with the killer insurance they have here. Part of me says stick around maybe AWAC will get a flow or by the time this place goes under I will be interviewing at a major or maybe a legacy. The other side says go now, pay dues once again and now wait for ur time or a phone call.

I don't think at this point I would do a lateral move. I would consider street captain or LCC only. How old are you?

Battlinbear
02-02-2016, 11:11 AM
Perhaps, but when I went to interview I would have just been offered the "interview" not the flow.Healthcare was pathetic compared to pdts. And from what I understand there is actually nothing on paper for the pilots at compass that says you grt a delta interview handed to you now. Could be wrong though? Compass worked out great for everyone hired before 2011!

Coneydog
02-02-2016, 11:15 AM
Guys, I wanted to thank you for all the input. My wife and I decided to stay with AWAC, I really like it here, plus leaving in base with a family its something else. Plus there is always a chance that AWAC will continue. I figure that in 2-3 years with my time I might land a job at a major at least(crossing fingers). I was hesitant to post here since there is a lot of negativity, but i am glad this thread stayed on point. Hopefully these cheese heads do a better job recruiting, instead of giving 100 dollar gift card.
Thanks Again.

I commend you for sitting down with your wife and making the decision as a family. You've made the right decision. Don't waver or let these jaded pilots sway you. Good luck man.

BobJenkins
02-02-2016, 11:41 AM
It depends on which "other airlines" you mean. One in particular comes to mind, and their planes happen to be newer and very low time, so may not be quite the dogs that other -200s are.

So why are other airlines acquiring 50-seaters if there is not a place in the market for them?

mpet
02-02-2016, 12:33 PM
I'm about 8 months in and am also at ZW thinking of bailing for endeavor. I'm originally from msp area, miss it, and given my relative seniority at awac the 30/hr + bonus could hardly even be considered lateral. Captain today said he'd do it in a heartbeat, sooner the better.

Fleron270
02-02-2016, 02:31 PM
I'm about 8 months in and am also at ZW thinking of bailing for endeavor. I'm originally from msp area, miss it, and given my relative seniority at awac the 30/hr + bonus could hardly even be considered lateral. Captain today said he'd do it in a heartbeat, sooner the better.

That would be a good move in my opinion.

I'm about 5 months in, thinking of going the CommutAir myself. Might just do the United interview, see if I am successful. Nothing to lose.

PotatoChip
02-02-2016, 02:34 PM
I'm about 8 months in and am also at ZW thinking of bailing for endeavor. I'm originally from msp area, miss it, and given my relative seniority at awac the 30/hr + bonus could hardly even be considered lateral. Captain today said he'd do it in a heartbeat, sooner the better.

Many, many years ago when I was a ZW new hire a classmate left for Compass after about a year or two. I thought it was pretty dumb... Boy was I wrong! Best move he ever made. He was also a MSP guy and much happier.

RawHide
02-02-2016, 05:39 PM
I also know a guy who left pdt in 2012 for republic. They were growing and things looked great. Had he stayed at pdt he would be a captain close to flowing to AA. Most don't like to talk about the bad moves. I know a us air furlough who took a job with AE in 06 ish when offered he turned down the opportunity to return to us air now he is waiting to flow losing over 16 years of seniority at a legacy.

el jefe
02-03-2016, 04:59 AM
"You wont know if you made the right decision(s) in this career until the day you retire."

amcnd
02-03-2016, 05:12 AM
I'm about 8 months in and am also at ZW thinking of bailing for endeavor. I'm originally from msp area, miss it, and given my relative seniority at awac the 30/hr + bonus could hardly even be considered lateral. Captain today said he'd do it in a heartbeat, sooner the better.

Not to get bashed. But i would consider SkyWest. MSP has secretly been growing bigger and bigger.. Its now the same size as Mecha (aka SLC) and growing.. Its also the most Jr Captain base..

crzepilot
02-03-2016, 07:06 AM
Go for a quick upgrade. AWAC has failed to obtain any new RFPs in the last 10+years, continually citing labor costs, who is to say that anything will change even if a new TA is reached in time. I don't think that there has ever been an upgrade time at AWAC shorter than 2 years in recent memory and that was when the United flying ended and people were jumping to other carriers.

billyho
02-03-2016, 07:57 AM
If you only had a crystal ball. I remember one of my dads Military buddies who wanted to live in base and not commute which he did. Many laughed at him while they all went on to fly for PanAm, Eastern, Western and a few other airlines flying widebodies with fast upgrades. They couldn't believe he wanted to fly for a small cargo company flying a handful of Falcon 20's.
Oh well living in base "Memphis TN" worked out pretty good for him by the time he retired.

chrisreedrules
02-03-2016, 08:32 AM
If you only had a crystal ball. I remember one of my dads Military buddies who wanted to live in base and not commute which he did. Many laughed at him while they all went on to fly for PanAm, Eastern, Western and a few other airlines flying widebodies with fast upgrades. They couldn't believe he wanted to fly for a small cargo company flying a handful of Falcon 20's.
Oh well living in base "Memphis TN" worked out pretty good for him by the time he retired.

This industry is crazy like that. Spoke with a now retired pilot who turned down a job offer from that same company to fly those Falcon 20's years ago. Everyone is in a rush to get to a major these days. And you can't blame them. Timing and seniority are everything. If the music stops tomorrow, I just want to be somewhere I'm comfortable and making a decent living.

pitchtrim
02-03-2016, 11:07 AM
I heard we're fat on fo's fwiw.

CAirBear
02-03-2016, 10:01 PM
I heard we're fat on fo's fwiw.

It certainly appears that way. Everyday the FO RSV Avl is very high with little OT trips. CA RSV is completely opposite, yet they claim we don't have enough FO's to run consistent upgrades...

CAirBear
02-03-2016, 10:14 PM
I have been sitting on the sideline for a while but felt the need to enter this conversation before people make a mistake. Don’t count Air Wisconsin out for the count just yet. I have several friends who landed their after Comair closed and they couldn’t be happier with the work rules and benefits compared to the other places they could have gone. At that same time others were migrating there from the likes of Pinnacle/Endeavor, Eagle/Envoy, and PSA just to name a few. The one thing I know about Air Wisconsin is they are crafty and if I am to believe the rumors I hear they are on the cusp of their own positive announcement later this year that I don’t expect to be an “Agreement in Principle”. When this happens I expect to see FOs flock from the likes of Republic, CommutAir, GoJet, Trans States and others.

I honestly think there is something to this. The announcement of Flight Attendant referral bonuses is extremely strange. That is a position they have never had issues finding people for. Hell you go camp out at your local high school on graduation day and probably sign up a couple hundred (you get the idea). It leads me to believe we are going to be operating something that requires two of em.

Flying with an LCA this trip and he said some of the promotions some people have received, recently, are strange and seem to suspect something happening or is in the works.

This place has a ton of money. Obviously they act stingy as hell (to a degree), but they have enough to make something happen if they want to. This will be a very interesting year here. If something isn't announced, sooner than later, good luck keeping people here (outside of the lifers and maybe some senior FOs).

They let you drop stuff? Quite literally the last 15 or so things I have submitted have been denied due to lack of FO availability. Maybe Orf was a bad choice. Even stupid day trips are getting getting denied. The heck am I doing wrong?

Unfortunately ORF is the worst place you could be for dropping anything. It sucks. I was ORF based, for just one year, and ever since I've been back in DCA the difference is night and day. My advice is GTFO out of ORF ASAP. You will be much happier.

Fleron270
02-04-2016, 03:57 AM
New rumors for ZW are that were parking 10-12 planes by years end. Probably not a good sign...

highflyer0685
02-04-2016, 04:14 AM
New rumors for ZW are that were parking 10-12 planes by years end. Probably not a good sign...

Source.............???

Fleron270
02-04-2016, 05:45 AM
Source.............???

PHL & MXE Maintenance

Doesn't mean we won't get replacements...

lalo
02-04-2016, 06:06 AM
PHL & MXE Maintenance

Doesn't mean we won't get replacements...

Well, if MX said it......

ChipChelios
02-04-2016, 06:22 AM
PHL & MXE Maintenance

Doesn't mean we won't get replacements...

Exactly. Why would we have new boxed limitations placed in our FCM for aircraft we don't have? (-704 computer) All our aircraft have the -904

sweetholyjesus
02-04-2016, 06:22 AM
New rumors for ZW are that were parking 10-12 planes by years end. Probably not a good sign...
Doesn't add up considering American asked us not to park the 4 we originally planned, and our block hours are increasing.. As you mentioned I would expect at least some to be replaced.

billyho
02-04-2016, 10:27 AM
Doesn't add up considering American asked us not to park the 4 we originally planned, and our block hours are increasing.. As you mentioned I would expect at least some to be replaced.

Probably because of the issues Piedmont had at first with getting the Jet Operation up and running. Which now seems like they are on course. Once those Jets start coming online it will make sense to see Parker starting to ask AWAC to park some planes. They weren't resigned only both party's agreed to exercise the extension. Remember it's all about cost and if Piedmont can do it cheaper then that's all he cares about.

Watching the crew news it's funny how Parker thinks Piedmont/PSA and Envoy offer the best career opportunities right now. It might be true for someone just getting into the business knowing they have a job at American but if they are going to get more experience 121 pilots to jump ship from there carriers he deal might need to be sweetened more. Or he might hope that a few contract carriers will go tits up.

CAirBear
02-04-2016, 03:38 PM
Well, if MX said it......

It's hilarious how these small group of MX guys don't talk to each other. Just talked to a PHL MX guy tonight. Had never heard of it.

It's not a coincidence that the FOM talks about planes with diff computers and the fact your are giving bonuses for recruiting FAs.

Everyone always loves to start things about our demise. I've heard tons of this stuff in, 3 years, and have yet to see anything so far.

My guess is if we do park some we will be replacing them with something bigger. PP last week when I flew with him didn't seem concerned with the future. PP is a very smart cat. I get he's older, but I'm pretty sure he would take a hike if he truly felt this place was going nowhere.

FODhopper
02-04-2016, 03:53 PM
My guess is if we do park some we will be replacing them with something bigger. PP last week when I flew with him didn't seem concerned with the future. PP is a very smart cat. I get he's older, but I'm pretty sure he would take a hike if he truly felt this place was going nowhere.

PP is the bell weather....he has been a rock...we should take comfort in this...


Billy Ho...move on man...you are like a college kid that returns to the high school dances....your info is poorly-sourced and your conclusions are conjecture.

billyho
02-04-2016, 05:51 PM
PP is the bell weather....he has been a rock...we should take comfort in this...


Billy Ho...move on man...you are like a college kid that returns to the high school dances....your info is poorly-sourced and your conclusions are conjecture.

Hahahahaha, I'm just a Piedmont Alumni that watches what happens at his old school.

What's poorly sourced?

billyho
02-04-2016, 05:52 PM
Wait, I forgot you work for AWAC. That explains it.

pitchtrim
02-04-2016, 06:14 PM
He's that one guy that goes to the away games after he's been out of HS.

Day4mx
02-04-2016, 06:29 PM
He's that one guy that goes to the away games after he's been out of HS.

Still wears his letterman jacket and hits on the frosh/soph cheerleaders.

billyho
02-04-2016, 07:30 PM
Oh no! It's a pack of AWAC girls jumping all over me. LOL!

You girls can get super sensitive if anyone says anything about your airline. hahahahahahaha

Not sure what was said to get your panties in a wad but I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

sweetholyjesus
02-04-2016, 07:59 PM
Oh no! It's a pack of AWAC girls jumping all over me. LOL!

You girls can get super sensitive if anyone says anything about your airline. hahahahahahaha

Not sure what was said to get your panties in a wad but I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.
They are probably just curious why you're posting here. Not that you don't have the "right", I guess it just seems odd to some that you have nothing better to do. But if a lifetime of posting in the regional threads is that much fun for you I say go for it. No need to call names though :)

Otterbox
02-04-2016, 08:48 PM
The only thing funnier than watching the AWAC/ PDT ****ing contests on APC is listening to the Girlfriends of AWAC Second year FOs talk **** about PDT in the bars in Virginia Beach while their boyfriends are on trips... I was amazed at the level of hatred towards another airline by company groupies.

Yes that actually happened, and that's when I realized the AWAC crowd was very insecure about their companies future.

FODhopper
02-04-2016, 08:52 PM
Oh no! It's a pack of AWAC girls jumping all over me. LOL!

You girls can get super sensitive if anyone says anything about your airline. hahahahahahaha

Not sure what was said to get your panties in a wad but I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

And a sexist burn to boot...using gender to put someone down.

I can take valid criticism...yours is just awful in it's construct because you make a point then back off in the end and say "we are all in this together".

Take a stand and stick by it....oh and bring some facts to your next argument about the health of our airline when you come back from Parker's next dinner party.

pitchtrim
02-04-2016, 09:24 PM
Listening to the girlfriends of 2nd year awac fo's... Didn't know Billy dated a 2nd year fo at awac. Explains why he's always so interested in awac.

snackysmores
02-04-2016, 09:31 PM
I was amazed at the level of hatred towards another airline by company groupies.


Who are these groupies and where can I find them?

Lvlng4Spd
02-05-2016, 02:02 AM
The only thing funnier than watching the AWAC/ PDT ****ing contests on APC is listening to the Girlfriends of AWAC Second year FOs talk **** about PDT in the bars in Virginia Beach while their boyfriends are on trips... I was amazed at the level of hatred towards another airline by company groupies.

Yes that actually happened, and that's when I realized the AWAC crowd was very insecure about their companies future.

Now that is some funny sh!t right there. The only thing my wife cares about AWAC is that she trumps them in the boarding process all day long.

billyho
02-05-2016, 03:21 AM
And a sexist burn to boot...using gender to put someone down.

I can take valid criticism...yours is just awful in it's construct because you make a point then back off in the end and say "we are all in this together".

Take a stand and stick by it....oh and bring some facts to your next argument about the health of our airline when you come back from Parker's next dinner party.

Well that sums you up right there.:rolleyes: What did I say that was wrong? Really? Parker didn't make a long term commitment to AWAC for one reason. COST! Seriously isn't it that obvious?? Look what he did to PSA/PDT/ENVOY?
Where have I said AWAC isn't a quality airline with a good group of pilots? Facts are just facts. You don't think Piedmont is being beefed up to take over most of AWAC flying? You don't think ENVOY getting it's first group of 175's won't soon start taking back Republics flying?

Don't live in denial dude especially when something is smacking you upside the head.

I've stated here that I hope AWAC signs with another carrier. But I can tell you that your days with American will be over soon and they will need to find another Code Share partner. Parker is brutal when it comes to neg. new deals. It is what it is. Plus you guys might be much happier under someone other then Americans umbrella.

As for posting about Piedmont on flight info if it hurts your feelings just ignore me. Easy to do just a couple clicks away. That way it will be like driving by your ex girlfriends house and you won't have to see her new boyfriends truck parked at her house. Out of sight out of mind and you won't have to think about what's going on in there.

I've said negative stuff abut Piedmont in the past. Piedmont is far from a great airline. I just call it how I see it. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a damn duck.

Also I don't have to go to a dinner party with Parker for facts. You just have to watch Crew News. Easy to do, just go on wings.com and watch Mr. Parker and the rest of his cronies address the state of our airlines. Sometimes it's interesting stuff.

billyho
02-05-2016, 03:24 AM
The only thing funnier than watching the AWAC/ PDT ****ing contests on APC is listening to the Girlfriends of AWAC Second year FOs talk **** about PDT in the bars in Virginia Beach while their boyfriends are on trips... I was amazed at the level of hatred towards another airline by company groupies.

Yes that actually happened, and that's when I realized the AWAC crowd was very insecure about their companies future.

And all this time I thought it was PSA that was hated.:rolleyes: That's some funny stuff right there.

Otterbox
02-05-2016, 04:23 AM
Who are these groupies and where can I find them?

At the pilot bars in VB.

billyho
02-05-2016, 04:34 AM
https://jennigoesglobal.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/kenny-powers.gif

billyho
02-05-2016, 04:45 AM
And a sexist burn to boot...using gender to put someone down.



Sorry, I just thought with the amount of sensitivity that you might be a female. I do apologize for that. Didn't mean to come off as a sexist. It's just a general rule that woman tend to be are more sensitive then us men. General observation I've witnessed over the years.

Don't worry if the ship goes down I'll make sure you get on the life boat with all the woman and children.

sweetholyjesus
02-05-2016, 05:00 AM
The only thing funnier than watching the AWAC/ PDT ****ing contests on APC is listening to the Girlfriends of AWAC Second year FOs talk **** about PDT in the bars in Virginia Beach while their boyfriends are on trips... I was amazed at the level of hatred towards another airline by company groupies.

Yes that actually happened, and that's when I realized the AWAC crowd was very insecure about their companies future.
Well at least the thread served its purpose before turning into another peeing contest. For the record I've never heard anything bad said about PDT/ENY since I've been here. But I guess eavesdropping on drunks at the bar that don't even work here is the best source for info nowadays. :rolleyes:

nuball5
02-05-2016, 05:16 AM
Obviously the writing is on the wall that AWAC's days with AAG past Feb 2018 are numbered. Whether that means we're closing up shop I think is still to be determined. In reality, small regionals like AWAC and others will be forced to close with all the consolidation expected to take place the next few years, as hopefully Mainline carriers take back that flying in-house. Short term it stings obviously, but long-term it's best for the industry. It's useless worrying about with DP said at some American meeting or what someone in MX dept said will happen. All we can really control is ourselves. Start attending job fairs, take that CA upgrade even if it means commuting to ORF, start asking friends at other majors for rec letters etc.....

billyho
02-05-2016, 05:30 AM
Listening to the girlfriends of 2nd year awac fo's... Didn't know Billy dated a 2nd year fo at awac. Explains why he's always so interested in awac.

I know right! So how do I taste? LOL

prex8390
02-05-2016, 06:50 AM
This thread was doing so well you guys! Cmonnn

ChipChelios
02-05-2016, 07:00 AM
Girlfriends of AWAC premiers on the TLC Channel next fall. They project ratings to exceed that of Honey Boo-boo

billyho
02-05-2016, 07:14 AM
Girlfriends of AWAC premiers on the TLC Channel next fall. They project ratings to exceed that of Honey Boo-boo

Now that's funny stuff. +1

billyho
02-05-2016, 07:23 AM
This thread was doing so well you guys! Cmonnn

I agree. then it only took 2 over sensitive gays/gals to go into attack mode.
Oh well.

Otterbox
02-05-2016, 07:45 AM
But I guess eavesdropping on drunks at the bar that don't even work here is the best source for info nowadays. :rolleyes:

Nah, it was the result of a conversation when a mutual friends girlfriends asked me which airlines I was planning on applying to when I got out. Instead of saying awesome things about AWAC the majority of the conversation was ****ting on Piedmont...

pitchtrim
02-05-2016, 09:58 AM
I agree. then it only took 2 over sensitive gays/gals to go into attack mode.
Oh well.

I do believe the over sensitive ones are you and the other pdt guy that lurk the awac threads for no apparent reason. Then we get to watch you be sexist in a defense mode. All anyone has to do is barely poke you and you can't help but sound like an idiot. The other guy wins for getting caught up in an awac girlfriends conversation at a bar and actually giving 2 sh!ts.

billyho
02-05-2016, 10:26 AM
I do believe the over sensitive ones are you and the other pdt guy that lurk the awac threads for no apparent reason. Then we get to watch you be sexist in a defense mode. All anyone has to do is barely poke you and you can't help but sound like an idiot. The other guy wins for getting caught up in an awac girlfriends conversation at a bar and actually giving 2 sh!ts.

Wait, it says Piedmont and Commutair and ZW? Didn't realize we couldn't post. You want your own message board then create one. Go back and read and find where I said anything negative about AWAC. Hell I was telling the dude he should probably stay and giving him advice that I thought was good.

Where you and your buddy got irritated was when I talked about Piedmont gear up to take over the flying AWAC is doing now. Somehow the truth ruffled your feathers. It's just a fact that American is building up Piedmont to do the flying at a cheaper cost. While it happen? That we don't know but Parker seems to think it will.

However I get it! We lived it at piedmont not knowing what the future holds. But just because someone states the obvious you don't need to get your underwear all in a knot over it.

Like someone stated it's a fact that the code share with American ends soon. Hopefully you guys will secure flying if not with American then another player.

But they if it makes you feel better I won't state the obvious!

pitchtrim
02-05-2016, 11:37 AM
It's impossible for me to get upset about flying going away when nobody at this point in time knows. That includes you and any other Jamaican wanna be fortune tellers. You sling gear at AA as far as I know. I don't usually get more than two lines into one of your theories before I get bored wasting my time reading. Fact remains you are in every awac thread running your mouth for some odd reason. Keep plugging away though, I'll still be here to occasionally call you an idiot.

billyho
02-05-2016, 12:13 PM
It's impossible for me to get upset about flying going away when nobody at this point in time knows. That includes you and any other Jamaican wanna be fortune tellers. You sling gear at AA as far as I know. I don't usually get more than two lines into one of your theories before I get bored wasting my time reading. Fact remains you are in every awac thread running your mouth for some odd reason. Keep plugging away though, I'll still be here to occasionally call you an idiot.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/47697424.jpg

el jefe
02-05-2016, 01:24 PM
You graduated high school, but still hang out in the parking lot after school gets out.


Anyway... I overheard a pilot say they picked up/left off 402 and 403 in RFD for that wing spar check. Why do that if we're dumping them? And yea the -709 thing in the FCM is interesting.

Just remember these are all rumors until it's in a PIF

pitchtrim
02-05-2016, 01:41 PM
He throws keg parties for underage kids.

Yeah the wing spar/maintenence required to get more life out of planes we were planning to retire is interesting. If we're retiring 10-12 I'm not sure why we're extending life on 5 really old planes.

billyho
02-05-2016, 02:27 PM
You graduated high school, but still hang out in the parking lot after school gets out.


Says the guy who bragged about putting me on his ignore list !! Lol

toolowterrain
02-05-2016, 02:47 PM
Vacancy out today for 6 upgrades. Yay for those.

sweetholyjesus
02-05-2016, 05:29 PM
Nah, it was the result of a conversation when a mutual friends girlfriends asked me which airlines I was planning on applying to when I got out. Instead of saying awesome things about AWAC the majority of the conversation was ****ting on Piedmont...
You're mad at all of AWAC because someone's drunk girlfriend doesn't like your airline?? Please tell me you're not that sensitive..

MKUltra
02-05-2016, 06:31 PM
Hey I like all you awac guys and have had some great conversations with you guys and girls in the Phl crew room. I have a large amount of respect.

What I don't know, if pdt can staff all the flying that is expected of us. There just isn't enough pilots and our training dept need some steroids to get to this thing up to "800" pilots. PDT has a lot of senior guys close to retirement or who are having medical issues. We are losing people to other carriers and cargo operators. That's only going to exasperate staffing, but movement will be rapid.

AWAC is an established pilot group and equipment that is valuable in this market. I hope they stay strong and demand a high price for their service. I am sure Delta wishes they had their services now. This only raises the bar for each and everyone of us in our wallet for being a professional pilot.

I honestly can't see pdt or any of the wholly owns to be successful in growth right now unless they raise the amount of compensation in order to attract pilots in order to staff the regional lift they have.

I also don't see the 50 seat lift going anywhere, but what do I know, I push buttons and pull levers.

pitchtrim
02-05-2016, 07:23 PM
I would agree with that as well.

Realtalk
02-05-2016, 07:59 PM
Hey I like all you awac guys and have had some great conversations with you guys and girls in the Phl crew room. I have a large amount of respect.

What I don't know, if pdt can staff all the flying that is expected of us. There just isn't enough pilots and our training dept need some steroids to get to this thing up to "800" pilots. PDT has a lot of senior guys close to retirement or who are having medical issues. We are losing people to other carriers and cargo operators. That's only going to exasperate staffing, but movement will be rapid.

AWAC is an established pilot group and equipment that is valuable in this market. I hope they stay strong and demand a high price for their service. I am sure Delta wishes they had their services now. This only raises the bar for each and everyone of us in our wallet for being a professional pilot.

I honestly can't see pdt or any of the wholly owns to be successful in growth right now unless they raise the amount of compensation in order to attract pilots in order to staff the regional lift they have.

I also don't see the 50 seat lift going anywhere, but what do I know, I push buttons and pull levers.

Somebody buy this guy a drink

yimke
02-05-2016, 08:04 PM
Exacerbate ...

billyho
02-05-2016, 08:07 PM
Hey I like all you awac guys and have had some great conversations with you guys and girls in the Phl crew room. I have a large amount of respect.

What I don't know, if pdt can staff all the flying that is expected of us. There just isn't enough pilots and our training dept need some steroids to get to this thing up to "800" pilots. PDT has a lot of senior guys close to retirement or who are having medical issues. We are losing people to other carriers and cargo operators. That's only going to exasperate staffing, but movement will be rapid.

AWAC is an established pilot group and equipment that is valuable in this market. I hope they stay strong and demand a high price for their service. I am sure Delta wishes they had their services now. This only raises the bar for each and everyone of us in our wallet for being a professional pilot.

I honestly can't see pdt or any of the wholly owns to be successful in growth right now unless they raise the amount of compensation in order to attract pilots in order to staff the regional lift they have.

I also don't see the 50 seat lift going anywhere, but what do I know, I push buttons and pull levers.

Let's see. First you're correct that AWAC is good pilot group. They been around for a long time and have also been a solid performer just like a few other airlines out there.

I do agree it will be a big challenge for Piedmont to double in size with a new fleet and a flow that keeps taking experienced pilots each month. Instructors included in those leaving will also hurt. Remember once they get someone to become a instructor they are gone in 1 or 2 years.
That being said they are filling classes with other 121 airline pilots now and will soon use people from other RJ carriers to become instructors. Kinda like how PSA used former Comair pilots to help in there training.

Yes AWAC is an established group but it's funny when you say, "I'm sure Delta wishes it had its services now." What makes you say that? All Delta has to do is pick up the phone and work out a deal if they wanted to right? So far AWAC doesn't have a partner and I'm sure they'd love to work out a deal with Delta or United (however two bad experiences with United might have already ended any future deals there). Plus I'm sure any new deal will have to come with a new fixed cost. That road was tried once and didn't work out.

So you think a contract carrier is safer then a Wo'ed in this environment? The 3 Wo's at American will only be as successful as Parker wants them. American has tons of cash to throw at any of them. Being backed by the largest airline in the world isn't a bad deal in this market.

50 seat aircraft are less likely at United and Delta then American. Delta just ordered 190's and are looking at taking more flying back within the mainline operation. United is also looking at a big order of 190's to keep the flying. This is a win win for all the regionals as more mainline jobs will open up.

I think the future will be bright for everyone soon.

sweetholyjesus
02-05-2016, 09:11 PM
Let's see. First you're correct that AWAC is good pilot group. They been around for a long time and have also been a solid performer just like a few other airlines out there.

I do agree it will be a big challenge for Piedmont to double in size with a new fleet and a flow that keeps taking experienced pilots each month. Instructors included in those leaving will also hurt. Remember once they get someone to become a instructor they are gone in 1 or 2 years.
That being said they are filling classes with other 121 airline pilots now and will soon use people from other RJ carriers to become instructors. Kinda like how PSA used former Comair pilots to help in there training.

Yes AWAC is an established group but it's funny when you say, "I'm sure Delta wishes it had its services now." What makes you say that? All Delta has to do is pick up the phone and work out a deal if they wanted to right? So far AWAC doesn't have a partner and I'm sure they'd love to work out a deal with Delta or United (however two bad experiences with United might have already ended any future deals there). Plus I'm sure any new deal will have to come with a new fixed cost. That road was tried once and didn't work out.

So you think a contract carrier is safer then a Wo'ed in this environment? The 3 Wo's at American will only be as successful as Parker wants them. American has tons of cash to throw at any of them. Being backed by the largest airline in the world isn't a bad deal in this market.

50 seat aircraft are less likely at United and Delta then American. Delta just ordered 190's and are looking at taking more flying back within the mainline operation. United is also looking at a big order of 190's to keep the flying. This is a win win for all the regionals as more mainline jobs will open up.

I think the future will be bright for everyone soon.
If Parker has so much cash to throw at his Wo's, why are they still some of the lowest paid in the industry? He could just pick up the phone and change all that... Sorry but I'm not buying what you're selling. Your arguments are very carefully one-sided.

billyho
02-05-2016, 09:57 PM
If Parker has so much cash to throw at his Wo's, why are they still some of the lowest paid in the industry? He could just pick up the phone and change all that... Sorry but I'm not buying what you're selling. Your arguments are very carefully one-sided.

It's easy to answer. It's because we are now cheaper then the contract carriers. It's the only reason the WO's are growing. If the WO's can do the flying cheaper it's a win win for American.
Believe me if he needs to throw more money at them he will.

Why don't you think AWAC didn't get locked into a long term deal? I bet you it was because of cost.

It Is what it is. How is the argument one-sided?

CBreezy
02-06-2016, 03:16 AM
It's easy to answer. It's because we are now cheaper then the contract carriers. It's the only reason the WO's are growing. If the WO's can do the flying cheaper it's a win win for American.
Believe me if he needs to throw more money at them he will.

Why don't you think AWAC didn't get locked into a long term deal? I bet you it was because of cost.

It Is what it is. How is the argument one-sided?

But you're not cheaper. Contract carriers like TSA is cheaper because their seniority list is super junior and their administrative infrastructure is bare bones.

ChipChelios
02-06-2016, 04:04 AM
what am I reading...? ...a transcript of the View? Bunch of old ladies bickering. Now I understand why China censors those who speak out. If I was a moderator I would censor 90% of you for speaking blasphemy lol

sweetholyjesus
02-06-2016, 07:08 AM
what am I reading...? ...a transcript of the View? Bunch of old ladies bickering. Now I understand why China censors those who speak out. If I was a moderator I would censor 90% of you for speaking blasphemy lol
Nothing wrong with friendly discussion. Just because people disagree doesn't mean it's "bickering" :) but hopefully this is somewhat on topic..

billy being cheapest only works if you can staff. Imho it seems like they'd rather hire us to cover what can't be staffed than pay the WOs more to cover it themselves. AA will fly them as cheap as they can for as long as they can. I assume the bottom line is better for them this way. With all the staffing difficulties out there I'd dare to say ZW won't have trouble finding work for quite a while. Hopefully they'll find something and decide to announce it before Jan 2018....

billyho
02-06-2016, 07:53 AM
But you're not cheaper. Contract carriers like TSA is cheaper because their seniority list is super junior and their administrative infrastructure is bare bones.

LOL, do you serious know what you're talking about? You do realize that was the major reason for the flow thru right? Envoy/Piedmont/PSA will continue to be junior airlines. The flow will continue to keep the senior list junior. Parker even said, "We want you to spend no more then 8 years at our WO and then go to mainline."

Do you honestly believe if the contract carriers were cheaper today that Parker wouldn't have gone with them? That's the reason Envoy went through it's hell in getting the cost structure to compete with other 175 operators.

If I'm not mistaken I think United bought into the CommutAir. It's to the point now that the Majors are switching to bringing more of the flying in house.

And this will be a good thing for EVERYONE.

3inthegreen
02-06-2016, 07:58 AM
But you're not cheaper. Contract carriers like TSA is cheaper because their seniority list is super junior and their administrative infrastructure is bare bones.

Parker has said multiple times recently they want to bring more flying back in house to the W/O carriers. This has to do not so much with cost as it does profits. You guys might be cheaper on a cost perspective, but they don't have to share the profits with anyone when a W/O regional does the flying.

billyho
02-06-2016, 08:02 AM
billy being cheapest only works if you can staff. Imho it seems like they'd rather hire us to cover what can't be staffed than pay the WOs more to cover it themselves. AA will fly them as cheap as they can for as long as they can. I assume the bottom line is better for them this way. With all the staffing difficulties out there I'd dare to say ZW won't have trouble finding work for quite a while. Hopefully they'll find something and decide to announce it before Jan 2018....

I totally agree with you. I never said ZW wasn't an asset. I totally think they are but Parker is known to get what he wants.

I'm would bet that Parker walked into ZW headquarters and probably wanted a long term deal form ZW that was insanely low. That's why a long term deal wasn't done. ZW knew they wouldn't get cuts from it's pilots. You guys are a solid pilot group. Believe me we at Piedmont have been there done that.

I believe the longer ZW holds out the more valuable you guys become. But at what cost? If no deal gets done soon you'll probably see more FO's starting to bail out and start having even more issues finding new pilots to replace them. It's pretty much up to management and getting a deal done with the pilots and another carrier.

I really hope you guys do and like someone said ZW's been around a long long time for a reason. They offer a good product.

billyho
02-06-2016, 08:05 AM
Parker has said multiple times recently they want to bring more flying back in house to the W/O carriers. This has to do not so much with cost as it does profits. You guys might be cheaper on a cost perspective, but they don't have to share the profits with anyone when a W/O regional does the flying.


Kind of what I was saying. It's the bottom line. We all know the profit margins that the contract carriers enjoyed isn't close to what it once was. Parker realized he could operate his own planes and at the end of the day keep the profits no matter how small.

sweetholyjesus
02-06-2016, 05:13 PM
I totally agree with you. I never said ZW wasn't an asset. I totally think they are but Parker is known to get what he wants.

I'm would bet that Parker walked into ZW headquarters and probably wanted a long term deal form ZW that was insanely low. That's why a long term deal wasn't done. ZW knew they wouldn't get cuts from it's pilots. You guys are a solid pilot group. Believe me we at Piedmont have been there done that.

I believe the longer ZW holds out the more valuable you guys become. But at what cost? If no deal gets done soon you'll probably see more FO's starting to bail out and start having even more issues finding new pilots to replace them. It's pretty much up to management and getting a deal done with the pilots and another carrier.

I really hope you guys do and like someone said ZW's been around a long long time for a reason. They offer a good product.
Indeed holding out has its benefits and risks. Two years is a long time to come up with an agreement though.

I still don't see the rush to move laterally. Get the apps out to the LCCs at least and move up asap. I know a few people here have been hired at legacies shortly after starting with LCCs. If the shiz does hit the fan here you could always move laterally last minute, plus get tens of thousands of dollars in bonuses because you're already typed with 121 experience.

There is also risk to jumping to one of those "career progression" airlines (lower pay, faster upgrade/flow) prematurely. The last AA jumpseater I had flowed from PDT after 17 years, though I don't know his exact circumstances...

billyho
02-06-2016, 05:20 PM
The last AA jumpseater I had flowed from PDT after 17 years, though I don't know his exact circumstances...

Yes, it's down to 15 years now and by the end of this year it will be most of the 2007 hires leaving.

Not sure how they are going to replace all the experience and I think that's going to be the problem down the road with the flow.




I'm sure his circumstances was making about 140.00 an hour after 3 years. :D

sweetholyjesus
02-07-2016, 06:37 AM
Yes, it's down to 15 years now and by the end of this year it will be most of the 2007 hires leaving.

Not sure how they are going to replace all the experience and I think that's going to be the problem down the road with the flow.




I'm sure his circumstances was making about 140.00 an hour after 3 years. :D
More like 20 years ;)

Brokeasspot
02-07-2016, 07:38 AM
The guys flowing mid February were hired 01/00, so 16 years on the dot. By end of the year it will be 07 hires, and drop from that. So, a 20 year guy that is still here or just now flowing has declined by choice.

CAirBear
02-07-2016, 09:28 AM
Let's see. First you're correct that AWAC is good pilot group. They been around for a long time and have also been a solid performer just like a few other airlines out there.

I do agree it will be a big challenge for Piedmont to double in size with a new fleet and a flow that keeps taking experienced pilots each month. Instructors included in those leaving will also hurt. Remember once they get someone to become a instructor they are gone in 1 or 2 years.
That being said they are filling classes with other 121 airline pilots now and will soon use people from other RJ carriers to become instructors. Kinda like how PSA used former Comair pilots to help in there training.

Yes AWAC is an established group but it's funny when you say, "I'm sure Delta wishes it had its services now." What makes you say that? All Delta has to do is pick up the phone and work out a deal if they wanted to right? So far AWAC doesn't have a partner and I'm sure they'd love to work out a deal with Delta or United (however two bad experiences with United might have already ended any future deals there). Plus I'm sure any new deal will have to come with a new fixed cost. That road was tried once and didn't work out.

So you think a contract carrier is safer then a Wo'ed in this environment? The 3 Wo's at American will only be as successful as Parker wants them. American has tons of cash to throw at any of them. Being backed by the largest airline in the world isn't a bad deal in this market.

50 seat aircraft are less likely at United and Delta then American. Delta just ordered 190's and are looking at taking more flying back within the mainline operation. United is also looking at a big order of 190's to keep the flying. This is a win win for all the regionals as more mainline jobs will open up.

I think the future will be bright for everyone soon.

This right here.

Granted the future is unknown, but I would be very surprised if all AA W/Os are not struggling BIG TIME to find pilots. The fact is there are an extremely limited amount of people who care enough to pursue this career.

I also feel most people see this "flow" for what it is. To me its a scam (that looks pretty). Its designed to keep you trapped at a regional for much longer than you should (given today's market and retirements).

I would not go to an AA W/O because of a flow. If you think Parker won't either, temporarily shut it down, or severely restrict it, when times get tough - then you are probably naive. Unfortunately a lot of young guys entering this profession, don't know a lot of this stuff.

Currently the flow is great for senior folks at PDT/PSA who, just one year ago, had no clue ANY of this was going to happen. For someone entering either airline today? I wish you luck.

sweetholyjesus
02-07-2016, 09:47 AM
The guys flowing mid February were hired 01/00, so 16 years on the dot. By end of the year it will be 07 hires, and drop from that. So, a 20 year guy that is still here or just now flowing has declined by choice.
I don't think you understood, but ok.

17 year flow + 3 years at AA to get to $140/hr = 20 years...

16 years is a long time to spend at a regional, especially in a payscale that caps at 12 years and/or never gets to 3 digits (PSA/PDT)..

billyho
02-07-2016, 09:54 AM
This right here.

Granted the future is unknown, but I would be very surprised if all AA W/Os are not struggling BIG TIME to find pilots. The fact is there are an extremely limited amount of people who care enough to pursue this career.

I also feel most people see this "flow" for what it is. To me its a scam (that looks pretty). Its designed to keep you trapped at a regional for much longer than you should (given today's market and retirements).

I would not go to an AA W/O because of a flow. If you think Parker won't either, temporarily shut it down, or severely restrict it, when times get tough - then you are probably naive. Unfortunately a lot of young guys entering this profession, don't know a lot of this stuff.

Currently the flow is great for senior folks at PDT/PSA who, just one year ago, had no clue ANY of this was going to happen. For someone entering either airline today? I wish you luck.

It's all how you look at it however. How's the flow a scam? It's gives you a golden tick to one of the biggest airlines in the world. It's not like everyone that interviews is hired right? It's not like everyone can even get a interview. Look at AWAC and how senior they are now. it's not like people are getting hired from there at a big clip. I know a few friends there that have been captains for a long time. They have degree's, good training and driving records and they can't get a call from anyone. Could be age, or too much flight time. The flow says, 'here you have a job if you want it.' Plus there's a ton of Military pilots getting out now and regionals will compete against them. We know who the majors like between those two. Especially Delta and American.
If the WO's offer a good upgrade time then get your PIC and apply to United and Delta first. There's no pressure on you getting those jobs because you know American will be waiting for you and you'll be a Captain making good money while waiting. How long it last is to be seen.

I see the pilot pool drying up also. I see a few contract carriers going out of business also which could be a short fix by flooding other regionals with pilots. I predict that soon the Mainline carriers will be scrambling to secure pilots. Look at Commutair and what they are doing now with United.

Nobody knows the answers but saying the Flow is a scam is way off base. It's there if you want it and I can assure you every regional out there wished they had one. Don't you think that? I'm sure everyone at AWAC /Republic and a few others wish that had one right now because it would take pressure off worrying about your future. The only people saying the Flow is a scam are the ones that don't have one.

At the end of the day however I think the shrinking of regionals will be a good thing for everyone.

ChipChelios
02-07-2016, 10:25 AM
Anyone who is not suspect of a flow has not met an American Eagle pilot who was jerked around for years with that bull#%! 😂 Betta Ax sombody

pitchtrim
02-07-2016, 10:34 AM
A flow is just dangling a carrot to me. Would be nice to have everywhere as a backup plan but I would never bank my decisions going to a company solely on flow. It may simply never happen. Those who got in and it works out in record time, that's some amazing luck!

Also...anyone have solid stats on how senior awac really is these days?

billyho
02-07-2016, 10:56 AM
A flow is just dangling a carrot to me. Would be nice to have everywhere as a backup plan but I would never bank my decisions going to a company solely on flow. It may simply never happen. Those who got in and it works out in record time, that's some amazing luck!

Also...anyone have solid stats on how senior awac really is these days?

AWAC is probably is pretty senior. Just like how Piedmont/Envoy were. Remember they were one of the few Regionals you could actually make a career with and AWAC is one of them. Good pay, good bennies, good vacation, good airline. Plus many of these guys got caught up when the hiring was down and many couldn't get out. Now they have the QOL they like.

Plus if you're 50 years old or above making over 100k and getting sweet vacation and good schedules why leave?

I just figured AWAC would have an experienced senior group. Plus I think that's a great asset to have. Piedmont Airlines is being drained of all there experience captains and instructors and I think that's going to bite them in the butt. Many FO's learn from experienced Captains and that is leaving Piedmont now. I even think down the road it could also be a safetly issue. I know my 5 years as a FO I learned Tons from all the Captains that had been at Piedmont for 10-20 years. You can't train experience.

flyviper
02-07-2016, 11:04 AM
I don't think you understood, but ok.

17 year flow + 3 years at AA to get to $140/hr = 20 years...

16 years is a long time to spend at a regional, especially in a payscale that caps at 12 years and/or never gets to 3 digits (PSA/PDT)..
U do know it'll be 07 hires by the end of this year right? After 07/08 hires it'll go to 2011, the flow time will be shorten by the end of this year.
Of course if you don't believe in this flow, no facts can change your view. Neither you buy it or you dont.

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