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View Full Version : Alaska a stepping stone?


Moose
03-11-2016, 04:36 PM
I keep hearing about line FOs bailing, new hires not showing up for training and many in the hiring pool with other airline class dates. Is Alaska turning into a stepping stone until greater things come along? Just curious. Personally, if I had less than 5 years at Alaska, I would probably have my apps out.


VegassBus
03-11-2016, 04:50 PM
I keep hearing about line FOs bailing, new hires not showing up for training and many in the hiring pool with other airline class dates. Is Alaska turning into a stepping stone until greater things come along? Just curious. Personally, if I had less than 5 years at Alaska, I would probably have my apps out.

I think at this point any airline that isn't AA,UAL,DAL or FEDEX is a stepping stone............

That can change. It wasn't too long ago guys would go to CAL for the 737 type then leave for SWA............

SVA402
03-11-2016, 04:58 PM
With the lack of scope and pay rates that are just OK for a major, they are certainly not in the best position to have a 100% retention rate. Also, it seems there are more and more stories of people leaving one legacy for another. It's not unheard of like it used to be.


Learflyer
03-11-2016, 05:07 PM
Year 2000 all over again. Guys leaving Alaska/swa for aa/dal/ual and then....boom! The guys who decided to stay at swa/jb/Alaska were employed during the lost decade while the ones that left were furloughed. Hope it doesn't happen again. Just reminds me of that era.


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Sliceback
03-11-2016, 05:11 PM
Mid/late 80's had guys bailing.

Switching jobs is probably much lower risk today with the retirements coming.

SVA402
03-11-2016, 05:16 PM
I agree, that's the difference today. Even with an economic downturn, the retirements make a huge difference.

Elliot
03-11-2016, 05:31 PM
Guys leaving Alaska/swa for aa/dal/ual and then....boom! The guys who decided to stay at swa/jb/Alaska were employed during the lost decade while the ones that left were furloughed. Hope it doesn't happen again. Just reminds me of that era.


Really? "Then....boom!"?:rolleyes:

You mean like,
1) 9/11 terrorist attacks,
2) Bankruptcy, (twice with US Air)
3) Oil prices/massive RJ expansion,
4) SARS/Bird Flu,
5) Age 65 rule,
6) etc. (I'm sure I'm missing a few...)

What reminds you of "that era" again? GMAFB

Burton78
03-11-2016, 05:49 PM
Really? "Then....boom!"?:rolleyes:

You mean like,
1) 9/11 terrorist attacks,
2) Bankruptcy, (twice with US Air)
3) Oil prices/massive RJ expansion,
4) SARS/Bird Flu,
5) Age 65 rule,
6) etc. (I'm sure I'm missing a few...)

What reminds you of "that era" again? GMAFB

All these things happened after the hiring wave. The key difference like others said is the mass amount of retirements looming that should make switching less of a gamble. No-one predicted all those things to happen, but they did. Just like no-one knows what will happen 5 years down the road from now.

2loud
03-11-2016, 06:37 PM
I spoke with over a dozen new hires and when asked, a good majority of them said that they have apps out with the big legacy carriers and/or FedEx/UPS. Most seem to be happy at Alaskan but they definitely expressed their frustrations regarding our low pay and 401k. They may be bluffing and only time will tell. As for me, if I were less 40, I'd bail for greener pastures and never look back. No guts no glory.

Learflyer
03-11-2016, 06:47 PM
Really? "Then....boom!"?:rolleyes:



You mean like,

1) 9/11 terrorist attacks,

2) Bankruptcy, (twice with US Air)

3) Oil prices/massive RJ expansion,

4) SARS/Bird Flu,

5) Age 65 rule,

6) etc. (I'm sure I'm missing a few...)



What reminds you of "that era" again? GMAFB


Whoa. Easy. Why so excited? I'm saying there were lots of regrets back then when guys left SWA for the legacies (and subsequently furloughed) while the ones that stayed at SWA (and reenlisted in the military) vs chasing the dollar and the flavor of the week made out better in the end.


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flyslow24
03-11-2016, 07:15 PM
It's fun listening to some captains at Alaska tell new hires they should leave and get their apps out.

All this as a means to "leverage" something at negotiation time.

Here's an idea. Lets get a better contract and do whatever it takes to get a better agreement in place. And let's get out of the mindset that this management team is somehow a better negotiating squad than those at AA, UAL, DAL, and so on.

We need new hire to leave? We need to hire a professional negotiator? I call BS. It's a mindset that needs to change. And new hires leaving ain't going to do that.

Let's start with the mindset of the pilot group.

2loud
03-11-2016, 07:56 PM
It's fun listening to some captains at Alaska tell new hires they should leave and get their apps out.

All this as a means to "leverage" something at negotiation time.

Here's an idea. Lets get a better contract and do whatever it takes to get a better agreement in place. And let's get out of the mindset that this management team is somehow a better negotiating squad than those at AA, UAL, DAL, and so on.

We need new hire to leave? We need to hire a professional negotiator? I call BS. It's a mindset that needs to change. And new hires leaving ain't going to do that.

Let's start with the mindset of the pilot group.

You're exactly right-CAs using FOs as a means to an end. Get ready to be thrown under the bus, again. Mindset change? This pilot group? When is Hell scheduled to freeze over? Don't be naive. Keep your options open.

DCA A321 FO
03-11-2016, 08:28 PM
I keep hearing about line FOs bailing, new hires not showing up for training and many in the hiring pool with other airline class dates. Is Alaska turning into a stepping stone until greater things come along? Just curious. Personally, if I had less than 5 years at Alaska, I would probably have my apps out.

Wow, such a change from the 90's.

They wouldn't interview me because I had a grievance in at my current company at the time. I wanted to work there.

awax
03-11-2016, 08:54 PM
Alaska hires great people, I mean it! I really admire the culture, but if I were in the job market I don't think they'd be my number one based solely on career progression.

There are lots of young Captains flying around so attrition isn't going to be a huge upgrade producer. That leaves growth. With one fleet type (the same one SWA is flying), DAL growing in the home-drome, and UAL recent order for almost 100 737-700's growth at AAL may not come quick enough.

Career progression would give me pause, but what a solid company to work for otherwise.

beancounter
03-11-2016, 09:47 PM
Besides the pay and retirement issues I would think the type of flying would come into play too. When I was on the B737 and never crossing the Mississippi (west flying), I thought it was the best job ever. Now flying the Airbus PHL to LAX or SEA, you'd have to pry me out of the Bus with a crow bar and I'd go kicking and screaming. Will I like International? I don't know, but I like having the opportunity to try one day. I think with Alaska though my biggest concern would be what kind of effect is Delta going to have on them. They're doing great now, but what about 10 or 15 years down the road?

alaskadrifter
03-11-2016, 09:49 PM
I would be more than happy to make a career out of AS!

beancounter
03-11-2016, 09:55 PM
Wow, such a change from the 90's.

They wouldn't interview me because I had a grievance in at my current company at the time. I wanted to work there.

Yeah, "the times they are a changing." When I was talking to one of the new hires in Charlotte I kept on having to do a reality check, because we were talking about the differences between the Boeing and the Bus. They were ex Alaska.

beancounter
03-11-2016, 09:58 PM
I would be more than happy to make a career out of AS!

The pilots I know at Alaska seem happy to be there. Seems like you have the right attitude. It could be a great career.

beancounter
03-11-2016, 10:01 PM
Wow, such a change from the 90's.

They wouldn't interview me because I had a grievance in at my current company at the time. I wanted to work there.

They were my second choice, never got called for an interview.

beancounter
03-11-2016, 10:03 PM
They were my second choice, never got called for an interview.

Well, I guess that's not true they were my third choice. American United Alaska

Laker24
03-11-2016, 11:41 PM
beancounter,

What was your fourth choice?

Laker24
03-11-2016, 11:41 PM
what about your fifth choice?

EskimoJoe
03-12-2016, 03:48 AM
If I were 35 or younger, I'd definitely view Alaska as a stepping stone.

mike734
03-12-2016, 08:08 AM
I'm suppose to be commanding a orbital shuttle back and forth to the space station for PanAm by now but Alaska will do.

Moose
03-12-2016, 08:23 AM
I'm suppose to be commanding a obital shuttle back and forth to the space station for PanAm by now but Alaska will do.

What's an obital shuttle? Carrying dead people? Joking aside, you are a captain and not someone with less than 5 years. You and I already made our beds.

beancounter
03-12-2016, 11:12 AM
beancounter,

What was your fourth choice?

That was my dream list, I don't think I had a fourth or fifth. I was mostly joking. Alaska could have been my second choice, I don't remember. Actually the reality of the hiring environment when I got hired was bleak. Only three airlines were hiring; Southwest, JetBlue, and America West. I went with the first one that called.

Justdoinmyjob
03-12-2016, 11:38 AM
I'm suppose to be commanding a orbital shuttle back and forth to the space station for PanAm by now but Alaska will do.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--XjMuo2RATg/TzaVTeNY7qI/AAAAAAAAAlM/a3QLvmDsZe8/s1600/2001%2Borion%2B1.jpg

Niiiice!

2loud
03-12-2016, 12:47 PM
What's an obital shuttle? Carrying dead people? Joking aside, you are a captain and not someone with less than 5 years. You and I already made our beds.

Yes, we will go down with the Titanic...okay, with the dingy.:rolleyes:

Packrat
03-12-2016, 02:27 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--XjMuo2RATg/TzaVTeNY7qI/AAAAAAAAAlM/a3QLvmDsZe8/s1600/2001%2Borion%2B1.jpg

Now THERE was a movie WAY ahead of its time.

GuppyPuppy
03-12-2016, 03:37 PM
They were my second choice, never got called for an interview.

They were my first choice. Never got an interview.

GP

rmcbear08
03-12-2016, 07:48 PM
I would be more than happy to make a career out of AS!
Count me in too!

ATR35
03-12-2016, 11:08 PM
Count me in too!

I'm surprised to hear it's a stepping stone. My brother in law is a captain and I remember how hard it was just to get an interview, this was probably early 2000 that he finally got hired. It took years of job fairs, etc before he even got an interview.

flyslow24
03-13-2016, 06:07 AM
It's not a stepping stone. Personally, again, I think some people are making it out to be that way in effort to discourage people from coming and leaving.

They are doing this instead of writing their union reps, educating themselves on the industry, and working on the current contract to make things better. They just are making this seem to be a stepping stone and have a "well I got mine" and "you should leave and get yours attitude" instead of helping make things better through all available channels.

Unfortunately, we have a group of yes voters that will sign the contract based on hourly pay alone which got us into last place on our current CBA among the legacies. You hear it on the line all the time, "you see the pay rates Detla just turned down?" Ummm what?!? They didn't just turn down pay rates.... They turned down work rules and all the rest.

I hope we can disbar the stepping stone propaganda and focus on the fact we dropped the ball in 2012 and we need to negotiate until we have a good contract for everyone on property. And not just a pension for some and not for others. Not just based on pay rates. A contract that makes it equitable for all on the property.

Otterbox
03-13-2016, 06:08 AM
Sounds like most airlines that aren't a legacy/ Fedex is a stepping stone due to the pay. Maybe not Hawaiian since it's an island airline but anyone with a higher paying company close by will be for many people.

EskimoJoe
03-13-2016, 11:35 AM
I'm surprised to hear it's a stepping stone. My brother in law is a captain and I remember how hard it was just to get an interview, this was probably early 2000 that he finally got hired. It took years of job fairs, etc before he even got an interview.

It's the contract and career earnings that's the problem. It's still pretty hard to get on here which begs the question for really qualified people, why would you devalue your career by at least 7 figures just to fly with an Eskimo on your tail? There's valid reasons for that...for some, but let's be honest. Cash is King and Alaska Management will *NEVER* be willing to compensate anything close to what the big 3 do. Don't blame the pilot group either. That old Cliche' of a "weak" pilot group. Newsflash, every single airline has pilots in it that think their group is the "weakest" in the Industry. It's not true. The RLA is paralyzing to labor groups. That's the problem.

No. It's not strength or weakness, it's Management. They are nice guys at the company meet and greets...that's where it ends. Abruptly. Alaska Pilots will ALWAYS be compensated at 80-85% of the Big 3. If that's ok, fine. If not, Alaska is a stepping stone. At least for now it is.

EskimoJoe
03-13-2016, 11:47 AM
It's not a stepping stone. Personally, again, I think some people are making it out to be that way in effort to discourage people from coming and leaving.

They are doing this instead of writing their union reps, educating themselves on the industry, and working on the current contract to make things better. They just are making this seem to be a stepping stone and have a "well I got mine" and "you should leave and get yours attitude" instead of helping make things better through all available channels.

Unfortunately, we have a group of yes voters that will sign the contract based on hourly pay alone which got us into last place on our current CBA among the legacies. You hear it on the line all the time, "you see the pay rates Detla just turned down?" Ummm what?!? They didn't just turn down pay rates.... They turned down work rules and all the rest.

I hope we can disbar the stepping stone propaganda and focus on the fact we dropped the ball in 2012 and we need to negotiate until we have a good contract for everyone on property. And not just a pension for some and not for others. Not just based on pay rates. A contract that makes it equitable for all on the property.

Ok Dude, next time you run into Minicucci, you let him know you've written and strongly worded letter to your union rep and how well you've educated yourself regarding the current state of the Industry. They. Don't. Care. They don't care with ferocity... if that's even possible. If it is, Alaska Management are pioneers in that mentality. This Airline survived post Kasher. Unless you were here to see it, Trust me, you have NO IDEA how enraged this pilot group was and what we instantly became capable of. This airline's performance became Cataclysmic. It cratered literally overnight and it went on for months. It was front page news in Seattle.

They still didn't care. Nothing has changed.

2loud
03-13-2016, 01:28 PM
[QUOTE=EskimoJoe;2088107]It's the contract and career earnings that's the problem. It's still pretty hard to get on here which begs the question for really qualified people, why would you devalue your career by at least 7 figures just to fly with an Eskimo on your tail? There's valid reasons for that...for some, but let's be honest. Cash is King and Alaska Management will *NEVER* be willing to compensate anything close to what the big 3 do. Don't blame the pilot group either. That old Cliche' of a "weak" pilot group. Newsflash, every single airline has pilots in it that think their group is the "weakest" in the Industry. It's not true. The RLA is paralyzing to labor groups. That's the problem.

No. It's not strength or weakness, it's Management. They are nice guys at the company meet and greets...that's where it ends. Abruptly. Alaska Pilots will ALWAYS be compensated at 80-85% of the Big 3. If that's ok, fine. If not, Alaska is a stepping stone. At least for now it is."


Eskimo, I agree with you on many fronts but you have call a spade a spade. Alaskan pilot group as a whole is one of the most pathetic WDs in the industry! Do you think Delta, AA, SWA would have have signed up for our last TA? 60+% of our guys willingly accepted a $hit sandwich. The company didn't jamm it down their throat; the union did but each person had a choice! These sheep couldn't even exercise the little power they had. Sad fact is that this management knows this. The only way we're ever going to get anything is if we are willing to burn down the house. This management is too arrogant and they're not going to give up their tiny piece of the pie and forego the ability to rub shoulders with the likes of Microsoft and Boeing. Pilots, especially Alaskan boys & girls, are horrible poker players.

EskimoJoe
03-13-2016, 02:55 PM
[QUOTE=EskimoJoe;2088107]It's the contract and career earnings that's the problem. It's still pretty hard to get on here which begs the question for really qualified people, why would you devalue your career by at least 7 figures just to fly with an Eskimo on your tail? There's valid reasons for that...for some, but let's be honest. Cash is King and Alaska Management will *NEVER* be willing to compensate anything close to what the big 3 do. Don't blame the pilot group either. That old Cliche' of a "weak" pilot group. Newsflash, every single airline has pilots in it that think their group is the "weakest" in the Industry. It's not true. The RLA is paralyzing to labor groups. That's the problem.

No. It's not strength or weakness, it's Management. They are nice guys at the company meet and greets...that's where it ends. Abruptly. Alaska Pilots will ALWAYS be compensated at 80-85% of the Big 3. If that's ok, fine. If not, Alaska is a stepping stone. At least for now it is."


Eskimo, I agree with you on many fronts but you have call a spade a spade. Alaskan pilot group as a whole is one of the most pathetic WDs in the industry! Do you think Delta, AA, SWA would have have signed up for our last TA? 60+% of our guys willingly accepted a $hit sandwich. The company didn't jamm it down their throat; the union did but each person had a choice! These sheep couldn't even exercise the little power they had. Sad fact is that this management knows this. The only way we're ever going to get anything is if we are willing to burn down the house. This management is too arrogant and they're not going to give up their tiny piece of the pie and forego the ability to rub shoulders with the likes of Microsoft and Boeing. Pilots, especially Alaskan boys & girls, are horrible poker players.
Some bases are worse than others. My guess is the percentage of yes voters is directly related to the latitude of that base. The further north, the higher the percentage.

2loud
03-13-2016, 03:19 PM
Exactly! The "I get to live in the PNW and fly for a living" crowd. You know....Gig Harbor is Eden and SEA is east of Eden.

Klsytakesit
03-13-2016, 06:16 PM
The "outposts" voted no.....Gig Harbor voted yes.....Gig Harbor is bigger than LAX, PDX and ANC combined

Klsytakesit
03-13-2016, 06:40 PM
Reality is this: there are six major airlines in the country....4 haul people and 2 haul boxes.....They will all complete with each other for contract quality.
We have 4 jet nationals that operate Airbus aircraft..(emb190 for jetblue).Jetblue at the top and Frontier at the bottom with Spirit and Virgin in the middle. We have a travel agency with there own jets. And last but not least we have to Jet regionals that operate Boeing and Airbus aircraft.
Alaska as a mega regional has probably the best contract of the six airlines of similar size in its classification. I think Jetblue will ultimately outdo us as they are twice our size and are actually a national airline.

So choose wisely when you decide to stop your hunt for a career...

Going2Baja
03-16-2016, 11:10 AM
I spoke with over a dozen new hires and when asked, a good majority of them said that they have apps out with the big legacy carriers and/or FedEx/UPS. Most seem to be happy at Alaskan but they definitely expressed their frustrations regarding our low pay and 401k. They may be bluffing and only time will tell. As for me, if I were less 40, I'd bail for greener pastures and never look back. No guts no glory.

Junior Capt on bid award at DAL is Nov 14' hire. Crazy!! Hiring 2000 by end of 17'. Alaska is currently a 10 year upgrade. Do the math.

Baja.

F15Cricket
03-16-2016, 12:18 PM
Junior Capt on bid award at DAL is Nov 14' hire. Crazy!! Hiring 2000 by end of 17'. Alaska is currently a 10 year upgrade. Do the math.

Baja.

Let's see, to an MD88 to NYC, as you said you would not want in another post???

And, too bad your info is wrong ... newest Captain at Alaska has been here 8 years, 6 months, and will likely hold any base they want this fall. Many chief pilots think it will soon come down to 5 years.

Also, Alaska is hiring a lot, too ... I have been here a little over 20 months, have 300+ pilots beneath me on the seniority list (I am around 80% seniority in the company), and I am at 50% seniority in base.

I did the math for you, Baja. :D

For those thinking about coming to Alaska, it is a great place to be (note, I did not say perfect, but even the almighty Delta Airlines isn't perfect ... :eek:).

For those of you who hate it here, work to make it better, or leave. Those who identify problems but don't suggest solutions are complainers, and no one wants to be around someone like that. I started here at 48 years old, so if you are younger than that, I challenge you to go to those greener pastures -- everyone is hiring, and as Baja says, you could be a captain at DAL in a year or two, probably even in SEA in the E-190.

[deleted]

Short Bus Drive
03-16-2016, 01:31 PM
Reality is this: there are six major airlines in the country....4 haul people and 2 haul boxes.....They will all complete with each other for contract quality.
We have 4 jet nationals that operate Airbus aircraft..(emb190 for jetblue).Jetblue at the top and Frontier at the bottom with Spirit and Virgin in the middle. We have a travel agency with there own jets. And last but not least we have to Jet regionals that operate Boeing and Airbus aircraft.
Alaska as a mega regional has probably the best contract of the six airlines of similar size in its classification. I think Jetblue will ultimately outdo us as they are twice our size and are actually a national airline.

So choose wisely when you decide to stop your hunt for a career...

Who's the travel agency with its own airline?

tailendcharlie
03-16-2016, 01:33 PM
Pretty sure that refers to Allegiant.

Burton78
03-16-2016, 01:38 PM
Who's the travel agency with its own airline?


Sun Country.

2loud
03-16-2016, 04:07 PM
Junior Capt on bid award at DAL is Nov 14' hire. Crazy!! Hiring 2000 by end of 17'. Alaska is currently a 10 year upgrade. Do the math.

Baja.

Didn't you know man, 2000 by 2000 here at Alaskan! We have roughly 13% more pilots than we did over a decade ago. I can't wait until year 2000 roll around! When is Vision 2010 going to be implemented? Oh boy!
Enjoy Delta.

Let's see, to an MD88 to NYC, as you said you would not want in another post???

And, too bad your info is wrong ... newest Captain at Alaska has been here 8 years, 6 months, and will likely hold any base they want this fall. Many chief pilots think it will soon come down to 5 years.

Also, Alaska is hiring a lot, too ... I have been here a little over 20 months, have 300+ pilots beneath me on the seniority list (I am around 80% seniority in the company), and I am at 50% seniority in base.

I did the math for you, Baja. :D

For those thinking about coming to Alaska, it is a great place to be (note, I did not say perfect, but even the almighty Delta Airlines isn't perfect ... :eek:).

For those of you who hate it here, work to make it better, or leave. Those who identify problems but don't suggest solutions are complainers, and no one wants to be around someone like that. I started here at 48 years old, so if you are younger than that, I challenge you to go to those greener pastures -- everyone is hiring, and as Baja says, you could be a captain at DAL in a year or two, probably even in SEA in the E-190.

[deleted] ...

I applaud your enthusiasm of Alaskan, seriously I do. You have to admit that you see things from a different angle from where you are sitting. I'm guessing you have approximately 27 years of active duty service, retired as an O-5, and collecting roughly $5,000/mo. from Uncle Sam. You were probably in indoc during terminal leave, double dipping (I did). I'm guessing you flew eagles out of EDF and retired, making a dream transition to the airlines, and got based in ANC.That's pretty rough, my friend.:D It's as good as it gets. Congrats! I really hope that you can keep your euphoria to the end. I really mean that.
Now, let's talk some facts, shall we? Upgrade of 8.5 years to hold the "base of choice"? Really? Is the base clinic now offering medicinal weed?!?! Base of choice=ANC and it's hardly the base of choice. You do the math. Hint, refer to the latest seniority list.
5 year upgrades? Really? Is Kevin F. back as VP of Flight Oops? Do you believe everything that management tells you? They've been telling new hires for as long as I can remember that, "you all are going to upgrade in 5 years!", just up until hiring stopped and furloughs began.
In regards to your comment about complainers, yada yada yada...... No line pilot nor ALPO will ever change this place! Never say never, you say? Well, there's always an exception and this is it. I'd just wait until our next TA comes out and after it passes, you can come on here and thump your chest on how this pilot group "changed" this place for the better.
Growth? Growth in seat miles with bigger 737s is growth to the company not to pilots. We now have 13% more pilots on the seniority list than over a decade ago. That's not much of a growth by any standards. It is definitely better than a fork in the eye but nothing to be jumping for joy. Something to think about, my friend.

saxman66
03-17-2016, 07:35 AM
I'm seriously thinking about Alaska. But it's not my first choice. I have a guy walking in my resume this week though. I like the culture. I've always wanted to live in the PNW too. I could see myself making a career out there. But when all the legacies are hiring like crazy, with DL and AA having 2-3 year upgrades it gives me pause. I'm from Texas, and would definitely like the option of getting back to the middle of the country for family reasons. I also just upgraded, and trying to get my TPIC up. I'm not sure whether its better to leave at 300 hours PIC to go back to being an FO at AS. Of course I don't even have an interview, so this all could be moot.

shroomwell
03-17-2016, 08:06 AM
Out of curiosity, if you actually work at Alaska Airlines why do you continually get the name of your company wrong? Is that some inside thing that those of us who don't work there don't understand or something?

Didn't you know man, 2000 by 2000 here at Alaskan! We have roughly 13% more pilots than we did over a decade ago. I can't wait until year 2000 roll around! When is Vision 2010 going to be implemented? Oh boy!
Enjoy Delta.



I applaud your enthusiasm of Alaskan, seriously I do. You have to admit that you see things from a different angle from where you are sitting. I'm guessing you have approximately 27 years of active duty service, retired as an O-5, and collecting roughly $5,000/mo. from Uncle Sam. You were probably in indoc during terminal leave, double dipping (I did). I'm guessing you flew eagles out of EDF and retired, making a dream transition to the airlines, and got based in ANC.That's pretty rough, my friend.:D It's as good as it gets. Congrats! I really hope that you can keep your euphoria to the end. I really mean that.
Now, let's talk some facts, shall we? Upgrade of 8.5 years to hold the "base of choice"? Really? Is the base clinic now offering medicinal weed?!?! Base of choice=ANC and it's hardly the base of choice. You do the math. Hint, refer to the latest seniority list.
5 year upgrades? Really? Is Kevin F. back as VP of Flight Oops? Do you believe everything that management tells you? They've been telling new hires for as long as I can remember that, "you all are going to upgrade in 5 years!", just up until hiring stopped and furloughs began.
In regards to your comment about complainers, yada yada yada...... No line pilot nor ALPO will ever change this place! Never say never, you say? Well, there's always an exception and this is it. I'd just wait until our next TA comes out and after it passes, you can come on here and thump your chest on how this pilot group "changed" this place for the better.
Growth? Growth in seat miles with bigger 737s is growth to the company not to pilots. We now have 13% more pilots on the seniority list than over a decade ago. That's not much of a growth by any standards. It is definitely better than a fork in the eye but nothing to be jumping for joy. Something to think about, my friend.

Klsytakesit
03-17-2016, 11:12 AM
[QUOTE=saxman66;2090613]I'm seriously thinking about Alaska. But it's not my first choice. I have a guy walking in my resume this week though. I like the culture. I've always wanted to live in the PNW too. I could see myself making a career out there. But when all the legacies are hiring like crazy, with DL and AA having 2-3 year upgrades it gives me pause. I'm from Texas, and would definitely like the option of getting back to the middle of the country for family reasons. I also just upgraded, and trying to get my TPIC up. I'm not sure whether its better to leave at 300 hours PIC to go back to being an FO at AS. Of course I don't even have an interview, so this all could be moot

If you are an average guy(awb) keep building that TPIC...You will not get an interview with out it

WiltChamberlain
03-17-2016, 08:18 PM
Out of curiosity, if you actually work at Alaska Airlines why do you continually get the name of your company wrong? Is that some inside thing that those of us who don't work there don't understand or something?

Somewhere along the way someone decided Alaska vs Alaskan was a distinction that matters and it apparently makes some guys here go berserk. He finds it funny (as do I). That is all.

2loud
03-17-2016, 08:47 PM
You mean, Alaskan Airways!

3inthegreen
03-17-2016, 09:40 PM
Reality is this: there are six major airlines in the country....4 haul people and 2 haul boxes.....They will all complete with each other for contract quality.
We have 4 jet nationals that operate Airbus aircraft..(emb190 for jetblue).Jetblue at the top and Frontier at the bottom with Spirit and Virgin in the middle. We have a travel agency with there own jets. And last but not least we have to Jet regionals that operate Boeing and Airbus aircraft.
Alaska as a mega regional has probably the best contract of the six airlines of similar size in its classification. I think Jetblue will ultimately outdo us as they are twice our size and are actually a national airline.

So choose wisely when you decide to stop your hunt for a career...

Who are the two jet regionals?

Justdoinmyjob
03-18-2016, 03:58 AM
Somewhere along the way someone decided Alaska vs Alaskan was a distinction that matters and it apparently makes some guys here go berserk. He finds it funny (as do I). That is all.

I believe it was Forgot to Bid who started it in the Juno threads. Apparently, there was/is much butthurt about "Alaskan" and "Juno." It's just fun to watch guys get spooled up over a word on an interweb forum!

GuppyPuppy
03-19-2016, 06:00 AM
I know a guy who used to work at American West then went to Jet Blue Airlines and is now at Alaskan. He specially likes to fly to Catchican, Redog, Cancoon, Juno, Portlend and Seaddle.

Supposebly he is very fond of Alaska Amber beer and bbqd samon. He likes that much more better then cheese stake and Ying Ling.

He lives in Jig Harbor and says heal probly stay at Alaskan and duzant see it as a stepping rock tipe airlines. He hopes to be capton sumtime next yeer and says the job isnot borring end nevr rootine.

GEEPEE

saxman66
03-19-2016, 06:58 AM
[QUOTE=saxman66;2090613]I'm seriously thinking about Alaska. But it's not my first choice. I have a guy walking in my resume this week though. I like the culture. I've always wanted to live in the PNW too. I could see myself making a career out there. But when all the legacies are hiring like crazy, with DL and AA having 2-3 year upgrades it gives me pause. I'm from Texas, and would definitely like the option of getting back to the middle of the country for family reasons. I also just upgraded, and trying to get my TPIC up. I'm not sure whether its better to leave at 300 hours PIC to go back to being an FO at AS. Of course I don't even have an interview, so this all could be moot

If you are an average guy(awb) keep building that TPIC...You will not get an interview with out it


You talking about at Alaska or other large airlines?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ForeverJunior
03-19-2016, 07:16 AM
I know a guy who used to work at American West then went to Jet Blue Airlines and is now at Alaskan. He specially likes to fly to Catchican, Redog, Cancoon, Juno, Portlend and Seaddle.

Supposebly he is very fond of Alaska Amber beer and bbqd samon. He likes that much more better then cheese stake and Ying Ling.

He lives in Jig Harbor and says heal probly stay at Alaskan and duzant see it as a stepping rock tipe airlines. He hopes to be capton sumtime next yeer and says the job isnot borring end nevr rootine.

GEEPEE

Irregardless and for all intensive purposes, worrying about grammer and speling on the internets is a mute point.

Well done, goopypoopy. :D

As for the whole "Alaskan" thing. Some controllers out east still call us "Alaskan" from time to time.

I've also talked to people who have been at the Alaska booth at aviation conferences. Every now and then they'll have an applicant come up to them and talk about how much he would love to fly for "Alaskan".

F15Cricket
03-19-2016, 09:01 PM
I'm seriously thinking about Alaska. But it's not my first choice. I have a guy walking in my resume this week though. I like the culture. I've always wanted to live in the PNW too. I could see myself making a career out there. But when all the legacies are hiring like crazy, with DL and AA having 2-3 year upgrades it gives me pause. I'm from Texas, and would definitely like the option of getting back to the middle of the country for family reasons. I also just upgraded, and trying to get my TPIC up. I'm not sure whether its better to leave at 300 hours PIC to go back to being an FO at AS. Of course I don't even have an interview, so this all could be moot.

Do yourself and your friend walking in your resume a favor and don't apply or accept an interview, if Alaska isn't your first choice. If you do get an interview, they'll figure out this isn't where you want to be, and you will likely not get hired in the current environment.

Not trying to be harsh, but I asked someone who was conducting interviews last year, and they said, "Is Alaska your first choice?" is a common question ... and they're smart enough to tell if you're making up a nice interview story or you really want to be here.

Good luck either way.

FSF17
03-20-2016, 01:31 PM
Do yourself and your friend walking in your resume a favor and don't apply or accept an interview, if Alaska isn't your first choice. If you do get an interview, they'll figure out this isn't where you want to be, and you will likely not get hired in the current environment.

Not trying to be harsh, but I asked someone who was conducting interviews last year, and they said, "Is Alaska your first choice?" is a common question ... and they're smart enough to tell if you're making up a nice interview story or you really want to be here.

Good luck either way.

Do any other airlines do this? In the current environment, this smacks of na´vetÚ.

300SMK
03-20-2016, 01:59 PM
Do yourself and your friend walking in your resume a favor and don't apply or accept an interview, if Alaska isn't your first choice. If you do get an interview, they'll figure out this isn't where you want to be, and you will likely not get hired in the current environment.

Not trying to be harsh, but I asked someone who was conducting interviews last year, and they said, "Is Alaska your first choice?" is a common question ... and they're smart enough to tell if you're making up a nice interview story or you really want to be here.

Good luck either way.

Just fake it, they are all about the same these days = can be equally enthusiastic at the opportunity of a lifetime!

2loud
03-20-2016, 02:45 PM
Every airline is your first choice. You work for whoever hires you. Very few folks get more than one offer so treat every interview like that's the one. Not everyone is fortunate enough to get their first choice all though life, unless you are F15cricket. lol
The hiring board folks don't have x-ray mind readers and they can't really tell if you are lying unless you are too stupid to play the game; you must play to win. If you are weak in this area, go invest in an interview prep.
Alaskan was my first choice over a decade ago but that was then and times have changed. If I were looking for a job today, Alaskan would be the last of the "desired" airlines to work for. Some of the pea minded Alaskan egomaniacs on here will have a tizzy with what I just said. In this job market, you look out for number 1.

EskimoJoe
03-21-2016, 05:16 AM
Every airline is your first choice. You work for whoever hires you. Very few folks get more than one offer so treat every interview like that's the one. Not everyone is fortunate enough to get their first choice all though life, unless you are F15cricket. lol
The hiring board folks don't have x-ray mind readers and they can't really tell if you are lying unless you are too stupid to play the game; you must play to win. If you are weak in this area, go invest in an interview prep.
Alaskan was my first choice over a decade ago but that was then and times have changed. If I were looking for a job today, Alaskan would be the last of the "desired" airlines to work for. Some of the pea minded Alaskan egomaniacs on here will have a tizzy with what I just said. In this job market, you look out for number 1.
Ditto. If I were 35 or younger, no way I'd be interested in staying at Air Alaskan.

CassinAK
03-21-2016, 09:16 AM
Ditto. If I were 35 or younger, no way I'd be interested in staying at Air Alaskan.


Anyone 35 or older should retire!! Or go to Delta and become a MD-88 CA!! I hear that was the best plane!

ForeverJunior
03-21-2016, 01:07 PM
Anyone 35 or older should retire!! Or go to Delta and become a MD-88 CA!! I hear that was the best plane!

That's a great idea. I think I'll go ahead and put in my application with Delta. They have huge retirement numbers over there and our guys are trickling out at a painfully slow pace. As much as I'd love to fly the MD-88 over there, I flew the "Super 80" here at Alaskan. I really want to get my hands on a 777.

beancounter
03-21-2016, 02:14 PM
I'd say judging from 99% of the posts, yes Alaska is now a stepping stone to Delta. The thread tittle should be changed to: Is American a stepping stone to Delta? :D

ForeverJunior
03-21-2016, 02:16 PM
I'd say judging from 99% of the posts, yes Alaska is now a stepping stone to Delta. The thread tittle should be changed to: Is American a stepping stone to Delta? :D

Delta should have just bought Alaskan 2 years ago. Would have saved us a lot of trouble with the whole application and interview process.

;)

Green Squirrel
03-21-2016, 02:17 PM
...I flew the "Super 80" here at Alaskan.

Um- this is the 3rd or 4th reference to "Alaskan." Who are they- and are they hiring? What's their bases? Is there a flow-through program with someone?

:P

ForeverJunior
03-21-2016, 02:57 PM
Um- this is the 3rd or 4th reference to "Alaskan." Who are they- and are they hiring? What's their bases? Is there a flow-through program with someone?

:P

Alaskan Airways is best airline in the world. They hire the best people and you have to be the best of the best to be a pilot here.

Shirley you've heard about them?!

Surprise
03-22-2016, 05:58 AM
So the gist of this thread is that new guys should leave Alaskan and go to Delta Airlines.:D

Learflyer
03-22-2016, 06:32 AM
Remember when NJA was going for its first contract and was awarded a pretty good one? And subsequently do you remember all of the threads on here in favor of working at NJA and it was the "must have" at the time because of that contract? I'm just kind of chuckling to myself as this proves how cyclical this business is. NJA is old and busted. The legacy carriers are the new hotness.

Us pilots are freaky bunch.

F15Cricket
03-23-2016, 06:59 PM
It's just fun to watch guys get spooled up over a word on an interweb forum!

Well said for a VMI graduate who now flies for Delta Airlines.

To those reading this, ask any of your buds at any airline right now--people are leaving pretty much all of the majors to go to another one that was their first choice ... Yes, people are even leaving DAL to go somewhere else. :eek:

Klsytakesit
04-04-2016, 07:38 AM
I guess for the fence sitters(should I stay or should I go)the acquisition of Virgin should claify that a bit

WARich
04-04-2016, 07:42 AM
Well said for a VMI graduate who now flies for Delta Airlines.

To those reading this, ask any of your buds at any airline right now--people are leaving pretty much all of the majors to go to another one that was their first choice ... Yes, people are even leaving DAL to go somewhere else. :eek:


Too easy, so many sarcastic responses possible....not enough coffee yet......:D And I have a client presentation in 5.........:eek:

beancounter
04-04-2016, 08:03 AM
I guess for the fence sitters(should I stay or should I go)the acquisition of Virgin should claify that a bit

As in:
I should stay, this helps stabilize Alaskas future.
or
I should go, a ton of 30yr old Virgin guys are going above me.
???

Carlsbad
04-08-2016, 07:03 PM
Alaska a stepping stone? Why is it then that all the guys I know there are happy and the majority of the guys I fly with think this place (American) sucks? I don't think it sucks, but just saying.

full of luv
04-08-2016, 07:12 PM
-people are leaving pretty much all of the majors to go to another one that was their first choice ... Yes, people are even leaving DAL to go somewhere else. :eek:

So there you have it. Delta is now a stepping stone airline job.

Carlsbad
04-08-2016, 07:17 PM
So there you have it. Delta is now a stepping stone airline job.

American too!

Carlsbad
04-08-2016, 07:20 PM
Since I'm on a post about Alaska. What is up with Alaska pilots? Whenever I meet a new one it's always the same. They tell me how much they love working for Alaska and about how hard it is to get hired there. Always basically the same two things.

ForeverJunior
04-09-2016, 07:01 AM
Since I'm on a post about Alaska. What is up with Alaska pilots? Whenever I meet a new one it's always the same. They tell me how much they love working for Alaska and about how hard it is to get hired there. Always basically the same two things.

;)

http://satellitesoda.com/assets/images/ddf/2015/15/7992-k-is-for-kool-aid-man-by-joeljayjulian.jpg

gooddeal
04-09-2016, 10:21 AM
Since I'm on a post about Alaska. What is up with Alaska pilots? Whenever I meet a new one it's always the same. They tell me how much they love working for Alaska and about how hard it is to get hired there. Always basically the same two things.

It's definitely not the kool-aid...most pilots don't look at the middle management and think it is different at AS versus other carriers.

For ANC/SEA/PDX bases, it's the opportunity for pilots to live in a geographic region that is desirable to them while working for an operation that has a lot of predictibilty and relative stability. LAX pilots get a lot of consistency too but generally not the happy predictibilty as the other bases. I'd say that most LAX pilots would leave AS for higher pay and better diversity of flying if they could be guaranteed to remain in LAX without a huge disruption in relative seniority.

I'd say Alaska is no more a stepping stone than any other carrier. While swinging thru the airline hiring jungle, it's safer to be holding any vine even when your ambition is to swing somewhere else.

2loud
04-09-2016, 10:55 AM
Happiness is not a state of mind but what's at the core of one's soul. One's true "happiness" can never change once it's set by: 1) self choice/acceptance. 2) Man up stairs . Ah crud... wrong forum!
I haven't ran into a single totally "outwardly" happy airline pilot. It's always something. It's like that youtube video of Lego pilot characters.... you know, "werk werk werk". I'll be the first to admit that I am one of them. However, I do catch myself from time to time. Lately, caffeine, exercise, and sleep seem to help with my outwardly happiness.
The fact of the matter is that the middle managers at the Alaskan familia, especially crew scheduling up through BM doesn't want the pilots to be happy. Besides pay and bennies, what get's pilots po'd the most? Scheduling and the inability to trade out of crappy trips, which are abundant. For many folks with lots of $$$ and/or power, its never enough so they have to control people to the point of misery. Oh but guess what, the optimizer is at fault and PBS will fix everything!

beancounter
04-09-2016, 12:25 PM
Happiness is not a state of mind but what's at the core of one's soul. One's true "happiness" can never change once it's set by: 1) self choice/acceptance. 2) Man up stairs . Ah crud... wrong forum!
I haven't ran into a single totally "outwardly" happy airline pilot. It's always something. It's like that youtube video of Lego pilot characters.... you know, "werk werk werk". I'll be the first to admit that I am one of them. However, I do catch myself from time to time. Lately, caffeine, exercise, and sleep seem to help with my outwardly happiness.
The fact of the matter is that the middle managers at the Alaskan familia, especially crew scheduling up through BM doesn't want the pilots to be happy. Besides pay and bennies, what get's pilots po'd the most? Scheduling and the inability to trade out of crappy trips, which are abundant. For many folks with lots of $$$ and/or power, its never enough so they have to control people to the point of misery. Oh but guess what, the optimizer is at fault and PBS will fix everything!

Good advice. Family, coffee, and flying make me happy, in that order.

Be forewarned about the optimizer though, it's referred to over here as the sodomizer. PBS can be a good thing, but the union should control the parameters, not management. At the very least control should be shared.

beancounter
04-09-2016, 12:38 PM
Since I'm on a post about Alaska. What is up with Alaska pilots? Whenever I meet a new one it's always the same. They tell me how much they love working for Alaska and about how hard it is to get hired there. Always basically the same two things.

I live in the great PNW and get the same thing. Usually followed by, "have you considered coming to work for Alaska?" I don't know, I just can't see tossing 12 years seniority away at America to go to Alaska. Call me crazy. Now Delta, hmmmmmm, maybeeeee........... :)