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flyboycpa
04-14-2016, 02:29 PM
Word on the street is approx 50 from the Flight Options side. So sorry to hear this guys :(


Jetlife
04-14-2016, 03:39 PM
Notices went out today. Such a shame :(

RI830
04-15-2016, 10:40 AM
Bet this wouldn't have happened if the union vote went the other way.


wildcat1
04-15-2016, 01:54 PM
That should tell you something. If the management team is that vengeful, then they are a company that needs a union.

Vital Signs
04-15-2016, 04:16 PM
That should tell you something. If the management team is that vengeful, then they are a company that needs a union.

Management team?

They have a union.

Welcome to KR's world.

RI830
04-15-2016, 05:15 PM
Management team?

They have a union.

Welcome to KR's world.

Isn't it Silvestros world?

I hate so say that this may be politics, but when ever a union and company wage a war, the pilots will typically lose at the hands of bureaucracy and politics

Vital Signs
04-15-2016, 08:57 PM
Yes.

Common denominator.

Fired pilots and Flight Options settle lawsuit | Business Aviation News: Aviation International News (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2007-10-08/fired-pilots-and-flight-options-settle-lawsuit)


Flexjet Sued Over Pilot Firings | Business Aviation News: Aviation International News (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2015-04-28/flexjet-sued-over-pilot-firings)

Dutch1
04-16-2016, 08:42 AM
The entire management team is scumbags. Sad...

David Puddy
04-16-2016, 08:42 AM
Word on the street is approx 50 from the Flight Options side. So sorry to hear this guys :(

Sorry to hear that. Were they on the fleets mentioned last week - the Lear 40 and Challenger 604/604? Thank goodness there are other opportunities out there. No doubt your experience would be valued. And airlines are hiring if people want to pivot.

If this isn't an obvious reason for a union (ie seniority protection) I don't know what is....

RI830
04-18-2016, 06:34 PM
Today's Weekly Announcment says the FLOPS furloughees were offered a 12 month severeNce package that was not accepted.

Can anyone shed some light or details about this?

Jetlife
04-18-2016, 06:42 PM
Today's Weekly Announcment says the FLOPS furloughees were offered a 12 month severeNce package that was not accepted.

Can anyone shed some light or details about this?

What weekly announcement?

RI830
04-19-2016, 06:06 AM
What weekly announcement?

If you have a FLOPS/FLEX email, you get a "Weekly Announcement" email. You call in to listen to a pre recorded message from management.

Jetlife
04-19-2016, 06:24 AM
From what I understand, the VSP was only offered to the Flex side, and Flops furloughs were announced before the VSP deadline.

HersheySquirts
04-19-2016, 08:38 PM
I guess all the union cheerleaders aren't going to state the fact that the union turned down the VSP and wouldn't allow its pilots to take part in it. If they would have allowed it, then that would have lowered the furloughs or eliminated the need to furlough altogether depending on the number of pilots who took it. Over 40 pilots on the Flexjet side took it.

bjtdrvr
04-19-2016, 09:15 PM
I guess all the union cheerleaders aren't going to state the fact that the union turned down the VSP and wouldn't allow its pilots to take part in it. If they would have allowed it, then that would have lowered the furloughs or eliminated the need to furlough altogether depending on the number of pilots who took it. Over 40 pilots on the Flexjet side took it.

Actually the Union offered a counter proposal to management either that afternoon or the next day and management basically ignored it completely. In a nutshell the company could pick and choose who they wanted to let go. The Union asked for a year of pay for any pilot taking the vsp including flex pilots and for the choosing to be done by seniority. The company out right refused. All of this is in writing and can be confirmed. Not Hyperbole!!!!

Vital Signs
04-20-2016, 05:49 AM
It's cowabunga county.
Not surprising.

flyinhawyan
04-20-2016, 05:41 PM
Actually the Union offered a counter proposal to management either that afternoon or the next day and management basically ignored it completely. In a nutshell the company could pick and choose who they wanted to let go. The Union asked for a year of pay for any pilot taking the vsp including flex pilots and for the choosing to be done by seniority. The company out right refused. All of this is in writing and can be confirmed. Not Hyperbole!!!!

So why the counter offer? What was wrong with the original proposal? The Flexjet side was only given the original offer which seemed pretty reasonable. Now 40 of our brothers and sisters have nothing to show for it.

Airman2105
04-20-2016, 06:49 PM
I guess all the union cheerleaders aren't going to state the fact that the union turned down the VSP and wouldn't allow its pilots to take part in it. If they would have allowed it, then that would have lowered the furloughs or eliminated the need to furlough altogether depending on the number of pilots who took it. Over 40 pilots on the Flexjet side took it.
The union never turned down the VSP but offered to meet with management to discuss the offer.

Dutch1
04-21-2016, 05:11 AM
Since management has refused to meet with the pilots and negotiate ANYTHING, they never intended to negotiate this. If our pilot representatives had said yes, management would have immediately come back with a different proposal and demanded that be accepted. Management would have done this until the pilots said no, then tried to blame the union and furloughed anyway. Why? Because that is the mentality of these scumbags.

RI830
04-25-2016, 04:52 AM
Ken Ricci comes out and offers VSP to the FLOPS side anyways.
Says he expects legal action from the Union for this.

The furloughed guys are offered this as well. Question remains, if 50 senior gents take the VSP, will the furloughs be called back?

Panzon
04-25-2016, 02:16 PM
Ken Ricci comes out and offers VSP to the FLOPS side anyways.
Says he expects legal action from the Union for this.

The furloughed guys are offered this as well. Question remains, if 50 senior gents take the VSP, will the furloughs be called back?
According to AIN, 80 have accepted the VSP.

Dutch1
04-28-2016, 06:04 PM
AIN posted the quotes management fed them. So far, five actual Flexjet pilots have left. Five. So your meter should be pegged right now at max BS.

flyinhawyan
04-29-2016, 07:11 PM
AIN posted the quotes management fed them. So far, five actual Flexjet pilots have left. Five. So your meter should be pegged right now at max BS.

I think what they mean is 80 have submitted VSP intentions and five have been approved by management at this time.

Dutch1
05-02-2016, 04:27 PM
I think what they mean is 80 have submitted VSP intentions and five have been approved by management at this time.

They can't approve more than five guys for the vsp out of eighty. And yet, this pos management had to immediately furlough forty! pilots. Think about that for a moment. This is a bogus act on their part; a farce.

HersheySquirts
05-02-2016, 06:58 PM
They can't approve more than five guys for the vsp out of eighty. And yet, this pos management had to immediately furlough forty! pilots. Think about that for a moment. This is a bogus act on their part; a farce.

You sound very disgruntled, why do you still work for these "scumbags?" Literally every major airline is hiring, so take your pick. Even Allegiant and Atlas are hiring so you can stay with your brothers from Teamsters. Sounds like you should take the VSP and seek employment elsewhere.

Dutch1
05-03-2016, 11:41 AM
You sound very disgruntled, why do you still work for these "scumbags?" Literally every major airline is hiring, so take your pick. Even Allegiant and Atlas are hiring so you can stay with your brothers from Teamsters. Sounds like you should take the VSP and seek employment elsewhere.

I've got enough time invested here that I'll stay and work to fix this. I've got a legal avenue, my union, to fight these scumbags. I'll stick with that for now. But you feel free to move along if you don't like what's going on.

Jetlife
05-03-2016, 11:46 AM
I've got enough time invested here that I'll stay and work to fix this. I've got a legal avenue, my union, to fight these scumbags. I'll stick with that for now. But you feel free to move along if you don't like what's going on.

I'm not sure what your age is, or your situation, but I can't imagine why you would invest time in a company like that, which has shown nothing but struggle for over a decade. Flops has been the lowest paid pilot group ever since I could remember. Your union isn't even close to being able to handle this situation, if they were, you wouldn't have guys randomly on the street, or have a CEO that is completely restructuring the company underneath your feet.

David Puddy
05-03-2016, 11:52 AM
I've got enough time invested here that I'll stay and work to fix this. I've got a legal avenue, my union, to fight these scumbags. I'll stick with that for now. But you feel free to move along if you don't like what's going on.

This is exactly what your management wants to hear. You ain't leaving no matter how bad it gets....

Dutch1
05-04-2016, 06:11 AM
I'm not sure what your age is, or your situation, but I can't imagine why you would invest time in a company like that, which has shown nothing but struggle for over a decade. Flops has been the lowest paid pilot group ever since I could remember. Your union isn't even close to being able to handle this situation, if they were, you wouldn't have guys randomly on the street, or have a CEO that is completely restructuring the company underneath your feet.

I'm a Flexjet guy. I think it's fixable. And I don't want to start over. If it proves otherwise, I'll move on. But I don't intend to just punt on second down.

Dutch1
05-04-2016, 06:12 AM
This is exactly what your management wants to hear. You ain't leaving no matter how bad it gets....

See my reply above.

Vital Signs
05-04-2016, 03:54 PM
This is exactly what your management wants to hear. You ain't leaving no matter how bad it gets....


Not true
Years ago KR was asked if the company model was sustainable in 10-20 years when all the current pilots are being paid___?___top money.

His answer in a long lawyer round about way was....hope for attrition.

Meaning they all move to the airlines.

Makes sense. As the owner trying to maximize profits wouldn't you want a bunch of 1-5 year pilots and not topped out pilot group.
Experience be damned.

Jeff Lebowski
05-04-2016, 05:33 PM
Never mind never mind never mind!

Dutch1
05-19-2016, 02:41 PM
Update: last week we had an evidentiary hearing on management's lawsuit and our counter suit. Management called no witnesses and presented almost no evidence. We called three witnesses and presented 1,000 pages of exhibits and evidence. At least twice during the hearing the judge told management's lawyer his arguments were "specious". All in all, a very good day for us. The judge has promised a ruling "very shortly". As I said, I believe this is fixable.

RI830
05-19-2016, 03:13 PM
Update: last week we had an evidentiary hearing on management's lawsuit and our counter suit. Management called no witnesses and presented almost no evidence. We called three witnesses and presented 1,000 pages of exhibits and evidence. At least twice during the hearing the judge told management's lawyer his arguments were "specious". All in all, a very good day for us. The judge has promised a ruling "very shortly". As I said, I believe this is fixable.

The lawsuit by the union against the VSP? Or against a furlough?

Dutch1
05-20-2016, 07:45 AM
The lawsuit by the union against the VSP? Or against a furlough?

Management filed a lawsuit against us. We filed a counter suit. Because of their filing, an evidentiary hearing was required. This was that hearing. It appears they weren't really prepared because they presented almost nothing. Their lawyer actually said at one point that they thought there would be an extension granted to them. The judge said he issued orders for the hearing to be that day and we would have the hearing. It went very well for us, not so much for them.

flyboycpa
05-20-2016, 01:38 PM
Management filed a lawsuit against us. We filed a counter suit. Because of their filing, an evidentiary hearing was required. This was that hearing. It appears they weren't really prepared because they presented almost nothing. Their lawyer actually said at one point that they thought there would be an extension granted to them. The judge said he issued orders for the hearing to be that day and we would have the hearing. It went very well for us, not so much for them.

That is good to hear :D

Dutch1
05-31-2016, 04:54 AM
There is a fence negotiation session today. Watch and see if management comes to the table, or tries to surface negotiate again. Contempt of court? Or progress? We shall see...

beech1980
07-02-2016, 06:18 AM
I noticed on the flight options page in the fractional airline section. It said pay scales to be updated soon? It was last updated in 2011? Does anyone have any current pay numbers?

bjtdrvr
07-02-2016, 06:26 AM
I noticed on the flight options page in the fractional airline section. It said pay scales to be updated soon? It was last updated in 2011? Does anyone have any current pay numbers?


We are still under the same contract just in negotiations