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livinthedream89
10-20-2016, 06:29 PM
Hello all,

I fly a Phenom 300 out of KSDL and the boss just asked about getting them to the Canary Islands (I'm planning on GCLA). We would have to get to Reykjavik then somewhere in France then on to GCLA.

Couple of questions..

1- We've never to Europe before, would you recommend an International Ops training course of some kind beforehand?

2- Does anyone know if you need an HF radio for the Canary Islands?

Last I checked the Phenom 300 doesn't have an STC for an HF radio so I'm trying to see if it's a possibility at all to get there.

Thanks in advance!


M696
10-21-2016, 02:52 AM
Been to the Canary Islands without HF, no issue. Nice to have on the way to Iceland though.

B757
10-21-2016, 04:15 AM
Hello all,

I fly a Phenom 300 out of KSDL and the boss just asked about getting them to the Canary Islands (I'm planning on GCLA). We would have to get to Reykjavik then somewhere in France then on to GCLA.

Couple of questions..

1- We've never to Europe before, would you recommend an International Ops training course of some kind beforehand?

2- Does anyone know if you need an HF radio for the Canary Islands?

Last I checked the Phenom 300 doesn't have an STC for an HF radio so I'm trying to see if it's a possibility at all to get there.

Thanks in advance!..I would recommend studying the ICAO-radio phraseology-book, if you´ve never flown in Europe before..Some controllers, especially in France, do not speak good english, and will not understand the `US´-way of communication..Have fun !!

Fly safe,
B757


livinthedream89
10-21-2016, 05:17 AM
Thanks for the replies.

Where would I look to see if I need an HF radio to get to the Azores from the US? I apologize for the ignorance but we've only ever flown domestic. The trip would be much easier if I could go from CYYT then to LPAZ, but I'm not sure about HF radio requirements.

GVCPT
10-21-2016, 07:31 AM
Yes, you would need a HF for a flight to the Azores.

RI830
10-21-2016, 07:37 AM
I would not attempt the Azores from the US.
Too far and too few options out if you were able to make it and something went wrong.
Blue Spruce routes is the way to go for the Phenom.
No HF required for those routes.
BIKF is great for quick tech stops.

Study up on ICAO standards and radio wide/narrow range tuning.


Have a blast!!

undflyboy06
10-21-2016, 07:47 AM
The link below takes you to a very nice generalization on NAT crossings. A lot of good information there. In terms of not having HF, have you looked into Blue Spruce Routes? These routes keep you within VHF range since you are always in range of land. These routes benefit aircraft that are not equipped with Lang range communications.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/afs400/afs470/media/nat.pdf

You beat me to the Blue Spruce Routes RI83. Curses ;)

galaxy flyer
10-21-2016, 08:04 AM
Look at TrainATI (Dave Stohr) or Scott IPC for international training, FSI also has courses, if you use them. No recommendation, but they are leaders.


Must have 8.33 radio spacing for EU. Check your fit
Yes, the Blue Spruce routes don't have an HF requirement, but there are gaps at F410 over the Davis Strait. ATC expects you to be out of contact for about 20 minutes
Can you go Gander non-stop to Iceland? If not, consider the Greenland options very carefully.
EU Ops are different, but you can get around in English pretty easily. I never found France to be difficult compared to Russia, it's NYC.
Canaries are wonderful


GF

maddogmax
10-21-2016, 10:28 AM
Besides all the regulatory requirements, radios, etc., don't be afraid to ask the controllers for clarification of procedures if you are not sure. They are all very professional and would rather have you ask than not understand what they are expecting you to do. Not saying you shouldn't be well prepared but the North Atlantic crossing procedures are vastly different than domestic flying.
Have fun and enjoy the trip.

Mink
10-21-2016, 12:23 PM
I would not attempt the Azores from the US.
Too far and too few options out if you were able to make it and something went wrong.
Blue Spruce routes is the way to go for the Phenom.
No HF required for those routes.
BIKF is great for quick tech stops.

Study up on ICAO standards and radio wide/narrow range tuning.


Have a blast!!

Agree w/ the above.

Also look at:

International Flight Resources (http://www.internationalflightresources.com)

Guy can give you a tailored training session.

Maxspeed
10-22-2016, 01:51 PM
Look into carbon emissions too. EU makes you pay for your gasses, You would probably be classified as a small emitter but you have to open an account and submit your carbon monitoring plan.

Maxspeed
10-22-2016, 01:52 PM
Universal®: Aviation EU-ETS | EU-ETS Aviation | Aircraft CO2/Carbon Emissions Monitoring & Reporting (http://www.universalweather.com/aviation-emissions/eu-ets/)

Maxspeed
10-22-2016, 01:53 PM
Look at TrainATI (Dave Stohr) or Scott IPC for international training, FSI also has courses, if you use them. No recommendation, but they are leaders.


Must have 8.33 radio spacing for EU. Check your fit
Yes, the Blue Spruce routes don't have an HF requirement, but there are gaps at F410 over the Davis Strait. ATC expects you to be out of contact for about 20 minutes
Can you go Gander non-stop to Iceland? If not, consider the Greenland options very carefully.
EU Ops are different, but you can get around in English pretty easily. I never found France to be difficult compared to Russia, it's NYC.
Canaries are wonderful


GF
Like watching paint dry!

galaxy flyer
10-22-2016, 03:53 PM
Which one?

GF

Maxspeed
10-22-2016, 04:05 PM
Which one?

GF

Sorry, Dave, knows his ****. But he try not to be monotone.

galaxy flyer
10-22-2016, 06:23 PM
Oh yeah!

GF

challengerflyer
10-24-2016, 04:57 PM
Put a SAFA binder together. If you're planning on stopping in France, there's a strong likelihood you'll be ramp checked, especially if your tail number is a first time visitor. The airports in the Western half of the country (Nantes, Brest, Bordeaux, La Rochelle) would all be considered if heading from Iceland to the Canaries and are just as susceptible to a SAFA check as Paris or Nice are, maybe more. In the Phenom, I might consider Jersey or Guernsey as tech stops, although weather can be an issue. Good luck and have fun.

Mink
10-29-2016, 06:17 AM
New from the FAA (and it's actually really good). Look at it before you go international:

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_91-70B.pdf

livinthedream89
12-04-2016, 06:44 AM
Hello all,

Thank you for all the replies. We made it to the Canaries yesterday! Making the Atlantic crossing was definitely an adventure including scraping ice off the plane and getting deiced in Goose Bay, a change from Keflavik to Reykjavik due to weather and of course my first oceanic crossing.

Question for anyone who has crossed before and may know the answer!
First of all, we are not HF equipped, so we knew we had to avoid Shanwick's airspace.
We contracted with Universal to do flight planning and handling for us. Going from Reykjavik to Vigo Spain, they filed us on the T9 route through Shanwick's oceanic airspace (from 51N9W to 45N9W). I thought this was strange, and brought it to the attention of the captain. He said the T9 route was VHF capable.

Well passing into Shanwick's airspace we were told to contact Shannon radio. When we did they gave me an HF freq and no VHF. I told them we needed a VHF freq, and after a few minutes they came back and said "ATC advises that you must be HF equipped to fly through Shanwick's oceanic airspace. They will make a log entry." After conversing with the captain we made mention to the radio operator that we thought the T route was VHF capable. She came back with ATCs response of "All of Shanwick's airspace requires HF radio."

As soon as we landed in Spain we called Universal and they said they understood the T route was VHF capable.

So....
1- What the heck does a log entry mean?!
2- I'm sure some of you are wondering why we kept going through it when I brought it to the Captain's attention. This was my first time in Europe and I trusted Universal. Did I make a mistake in trusting a company that exclusively does this kind of planning?

Thanks for any answers, and go easy on me, I want to know how we can improve so this doesn't happen again on the way back.

RI830
12-04-2016, 11:33 AM
Hello all,

Thank you for all the replies. We made it to the Canaries yesterday! Making the Atlantic crossing was definitely an adventure including scraping ice off the plane and getting deiced in Goose Bay, a change from Keflavik to Reykjavik due to weather and of course my first oceanic crossing.

Question for anyone who has crossed before and may know the answer!
First of all, we are not HF equipped, so we knew we had to avoid Shanwick's airspace.
We contracted with Universal to do flight planning and handling for us. Going from Reykjavik to Vigo Spain, they filed us on the T9 route through Shanwick's oceanic airspace (from 51N9W to 45N9W). I thought this was strange, and brought it to the attention of the captain. He said the T9 route was VHF capable.

Well passing into Shanwick's airspace we were told to contact Shannon radio. When we did they gave me an HF freq and no VHF. I told them we needed a VHF freq, and after a few minutes they came back and said "ATC advises that you must be HF equipped to fly through Shanwick's oceanic airspace. They will make a log entry." After conversing with the captain we made mention to the radio operator that we thought the T route was VHF capable. She came back with ATCs response of "All of Shanwick's airspace requires HF radio."

As soon as we landed in Spain we called Universal and they said they understood the T route was VHF capable.

So....
1- What the heck does a log entry mean?!
2- I'm sure some of you are wondering why we kept going through it when I brought it to the Captain's attention. This was my first time in Europe and I trusted Universal. Did I make a mistake in trusting a company that exclusively does this kind of planning?

Thanks for any answers, and go easy on me, I want to know how we can improve so this doesn't happen again on the way back.

Welcome to the other side of 30W!!
Companies such as Colt, Universal and Arinc are pretty spot on with their info and procedures so it's hard to not trust them.
Please refer to this article about the T routes through Shanwick.
http://flightservicebureau.org/the-three-sisters-shanwicks-tango-routes/

HF is required in Shanwick airspace.
As for a log entry, I think they will note what happened with the tail number. Shouldn't be anything more than note taking.

Have fun over there!

galaxy flyer
12-04-2016, 04:48 PM
Enjoy the Canaries! Great location, buy the local wines, very unique.

Haven't done an HF-out crossing in years, but I'm certain the "Blue Spruce" VHF-only requires you to avoid Shanwick and route thru Scottish over ALDAN or ATSIX (60N). It's all in the Europe J-AID EUROPE pages 685-687.

Not sure what a "log entry" means but if you routed thru Shanwick, you might be hearing of it as a ATC intervention from the FAA. An intervention is reportable as a "near miss" where ATC prevented a violation of oceanic separation. Talk directly to UVAir about it soon and make sure they have your correct equipment codes. File ARSR.


GF



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