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Makanakis
12-06-2016, 03:35 AM
Norwegian outlines next steps for Irish transatlantic routes (http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/europe/norwegian-outlines-irish-transatlantic-routes/)


Makanakis
12-06-2016, 07:42 AM
Plus:

Norwegian to increase USA flights by over 50% next summer (http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/europe/norwegian-increase-usa-flights-50-next-summer/)

NEDude
12-06-2016, 01:32 PM
Norwegian outlines next steps for Irish transatlantic routes (http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/europe/norwegian-outlines-irish-transatlantic-routes/)

But wait, I thought ALPA said NAI does not service Ireland:
"Mind you, the airline does not fly to or from Ireland"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju3X4UOVtqw&t=85s


likeitis
12-06-2016, 01:40 PM
But wait, I thought ALPA said NAI does not service Ireland:
"Mind you, the airline does not fly to or from Ireland"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju3X4UOVtqw&t=85s

If someone has to explain this to you I'm hopeful you don't fly airplanes.

NERD
12-07-2016, 06:39 AM
My guess is they get very proficient at go-arounds:)

Nantonaku
12-07-2016, 09:34 AM
But wait, I thought ALPA said NAI does not service Ireland:
"Mind you, the airline does not fly to or from Ireland"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju3X4UOVtqw&t=85s

They change their strategy on a daily basis so it is tough to keep up. Why do you think it took 3 years to get approval? They didn't originally plan on flying from Ireland. I ask you again, where is the written commitment to the DOT to abide by Art. 17 and not use contracted Asian crews?

NEDude
12-07-2016, 12:40 PM
They change their strategy on a daily basis so it is tough to keep up. Why do you think it took 3 years to get approval? They didn't originally plan on flying from Ireland. I ask you again, where is the written commitment to the DOT to abide by Art. 17 and not use contracted Asian crews?

I cannot produce such a written commitment. Can you do the same for any other European airline that has DOT approval? Please produce such a written document for Lufthansa, British Airways, Swiss, SAS, Air France, KLM, Austrian, Aer Lingus, Iberia, Alitalia, Thomas Cook, Virgin Atlantic, Finnair, Lot, WOW Air, Brussels, Air Berlin, Iceland Air, Edelweiss, Eurowings, Euro Atlantic.

Regarding the contracted Asian crews, please tell me which of the bases listed here are in Asia:
Norwegian careers (http://careers.norwegian.com/pilot)

If you bother to look at the positions you will see the following two agencies listed:
OSM Aviation - Based in Oslo, Norway
OSM Aviation AS: Private Company Information - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=261646762)

Rishworth Aviation - Based in Auckland, New Zealand
Rishworth Aviation Limited: Private Company Information - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=45735654)
Furthermore if you look into Rishworth more, you will see that the Norwegian jobs are contracted through their UK subsidiary called Global Crew UK LTD - based in Ipswich, UK
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09543804

Nowhere in there is a Bangkok or other Asian base. Nowhere in there is an Asian contract. Norwegian does have a Bangkok base, but the crews that are based there want to be there. They have not hired into that base for quite some time. The pilots that are there are required to be EASA licensed and have right to live and work in the EU, so they are EU nationals.

I have provided you the links so you can see all the information for yourself. I doubt you will take the time to actually look at it though, and instead take ALPA at face value so you can stay angry.

As for the changing the strategy, they most certainly changed some things in order to facilitate their DOT approval. But that is what ALPA and the US airlines have been asking them to do. So how on earth can you be upset for them doing what has been asked of them?

They are flying out of Ireland. They are using European based crews on European employment contracts bound by EU employment laws. All of which ALPA fails to acknowledge.

Nantonaku
12-07-2016, 01:36 PM
I cannot produce such a written commitment. Can you do the same for any other European airline that has DOT approval? Please produce such a written document for Lufthansa, British Airways, Swiss, SAS, Air France, KLM, Austrian, Aer Lingus, Iberia, Alitalia, Thomas Cook, Virgin Atlantic, Finnair, Lot, WOW Air, Brussels, Air Berlin, Iceland Air, Edelweiss, Eurowings, Euro Atlantic.

Regarding the contracted Asian crews, please tell me which of the bases listed here are in Asia:
Norwegian careers (http://careers.norwegian.com/pilot)

If you bother to look at the positions you will see the following two agencies listed:
OSM Aviation - Based in Oslo, Norway
OSM Aviation AS: Private Company Information - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=261646762)

Rishworth Aviation - Based in Auckland, New Zealand
Rishworth Aviation Limited: Private Company Information - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=45735654)
Furthermore if you look into Rishworth more, you will see that the Norwegian jobs are contracted through their UK subsidiary called Global Crew UK LTD - based in Ipswich, UK
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09543804

Nowhere in there is a Bangkok or other Asian base. Nowhere in there is an Asian contract. Norwegian does have a Bangkok base, but the crews that are based there want to be there. They have not hired into that base for quite some time. The pilots that are there are required to be EASA licensed and have right to live and work in the EU, so they are EU nationals.

I have provided you the links so you can see all the information for yourself. I doubt you will take the time to actually look at it though, and instead take ALPA at face value so you can stay angry.

As for the changing the strategy, they most certainly changed some things in order to facilitate their DOT approval. But that is what ALPA and the US airlines have been asking them to do. So how on earth can you be upset for them doing what has been asked of them?

They are flying out of Ireland. They are using European based crews on European employment contracts bound by EU employment laws. All of which ALPA fails to acknowledge.

None of the airlines you listed are on record as wanting to skirt local labor laws and thus why would the DOT ask for a written commitment? NAI is on record as wanting to undercut local labor laws to keep labor costs down. Thus I think it is more than fair that they provide a legal binding document. What was their business plan 3 years ago? What is it today? They haven't done what is asked them, that is the problem. They won't make a commitment to not trying to undermine local labor laws. They are on record as wanting to undermine local labor laws anyway they can so now they must agree to play by the same rules as everyone else. I don't think that is too much to ask. The fact that they won't agree to abide by the intent of the agreement says a lot, and that is why multiple Unions (not just ALPA) and organizations on both continents as well as half of Congress is against this approval.

And your links serve no purpose, so they have an agreement to hire through the UK? What does that mean? Why don't they just hire through Norway at their corporate headquarters? For all I know that U.K. agency could have an office in Asia and starting tomorrow they will run the contract through a different country. Air France and Lufthansa aren't setup to do this, NAI is.

NEDude
12-07-2016, 02:34 PM
None of the airlines you listed are on record as wanting to skirt local labor laws and thus why would the DOT ask for a written commitment? NAI is on record as wanting to undercut local labor laws to keep labor costs down. Thus I think it is more than fair that they provide a legal binding document. What was their business plan 3 years ago? What is it today? They haven't done what is asked them, that is the problem. They won't make a commitment to not trying to undermine local labor laws. They are on record as wanting to undermine local labor laws anyway they can so now they must agree to play by the same rules as everyone else. I don't think that is too much to ask. The fact that they won't agree to abide by the intent of the agreement says a lot, and that is why multiple Unions (not just ALPA) and organizations on both continents as well as half of Congress is against this approval.

And your links serve no purpose, so they have an agreement to hire through the UK? What does that mean? Why don't they just hire through Norway at their corporate headquarters? For all I know that U.K. agency could have an office in Asia and starting tomorrow they will run the contract through a different country. Air France and Lufthansa aren't setup to do this, NAI is.

But Finnair is set up to do it:
Finnair (http://www.finnairgroup.com/mediaen/mediaen_7.html?Id=xml_1684689.html)

Oh, and Brussels Airlines hires contract crews through an agency based in a third country. And so does WOW Air.

As for the links...
Hiring through a UK and Norwegian agencies means nothing?! It means they are in compliance with EU and Norwegian labour laws. And it means they are not hiring through an Asian agency. You, and ALPA, are accusing them of hiring pilots on Asian contracts for Asian bases. THEY ARE NOT DOING THAT! IT IS TOTALLY RELEVANT TO WHAT YOU ARE CLAIMING!!

You would also notice, if you bothered to actually look at the links I posted, that FLL pilots are hired through Norway, which is EXACTLY what you, and ALPA, have been asking for. FLL based pilots will be flying for Norwegian on a Norwegian contract in compliance with Norwegian labour laws!

Nantonaku
12-07-2016, 05:15 PM
But Finnair is set up to do it:
Finnair (http://www.finnairgroup.com/mediaen/mediaen_7.html?Id=xml_1684689.html)

Oh, and Brussels Airlines hires contract crews through an agency based in a third country. And so does WOW Air.

As for the links...
Hiring through a UK and Norwegian agencies means nothing?! It means they are in compliance with EU and Norwegian labour laws. And it means they are not hiring through an Asian agency. You, and ALPA, are accusing them of hiring pilots on Asian contracts for Asian bases. THEY ARE NOT DOING THAT! IT IS TOTALLY RELEVANT TO WHAT YOU ARE CLAIMING!!

You would also notice, if you bothered to actually look at the links I posted, that FLL pilots are hired through Norway, which is EXACTLY what you, and ALPA, have been asking for. FLL based pilots will be flying for Norwegian on a Norwegian contract in compliance with Norwegian labour laws!

I've told you multiple times what I'm asking for, a commitment to abide by article 17 since they are on record as saying they intend to undercut local labor laws anyway they can. They won't do it - why?

They are hiring how many US pilots? 17? Just so they can get the DOT approval? Sounds fair . . . and like I said, great, they use an agency in UK today. Tomorrow that agency opens an office in Thailand - the UK office was nothing more than to get DOT approval. Why won't they make a commitment to abide by the agreement? Because they don't intend to follow it, once they get the full approval they know it will either be impossible to revoke or any infractions will be fought out in court over the course of years.

Braniff DC8
12-07-2016, 08:01 PM
NEdude, stop wasting your time my friend. All these people need a scapegoat and they found one. It's sort of like being an Alcoholic, you never blame yourself for the things you have done or the pain you have inflicted. I am an American, born and raised, and this to me is just nonsense. It's the new entitlement generation. It's ok for us just not for them which is just hypocricy on all the threads on these forums. I know I will get hammered for it but someone needs to call BS to it. You and I are on our own NEdude. Sit back now and watch the attacks, name calling and threats. Our posts will eventually be removed anyway.

Packrat
12-07-2016, 08:23 PM
NEdude, stop wasting your time my friend. All these people need a scapegoat and they found one. It's sort of like being an Alcoholic, you never blame yourself for the things you have done or the pain you have inflicted. I am an American, born and raised, and this to me is just nonsense. It's the new entitlement generation. It's ok for us just not for them which is just hypocricy on all the threads on these forums. I know I will get hammered for it but someone needs to call BS to it. You and I are on our own NEdude. Sit back now and watch the attacks, name calling and threats. Our posts will eventually be removed anyway.

How dare you post anything opposed to the APC groupthink. :rolleyes:

PotatoChip
12-08-2016, 04:59 AM
NEdude, stop wasting your time my friend. All these people need a scapegoat and they found one. It's sort of like being an Alcoholic, you never blame yourself for the things you have done or the pain you have inflicted. I am an American, born and raised, and this to me is just nonsense. It's the new entitlement generation. It's ok for us just not for them which is just hypocricy on all the threads on these forums. I know I will get hammered for it but someone needs to call BS to it. You and I are on our own NEdude. Sit back now and watch the attacks, name calling and threats. Our posts will eventually be removed anyway.

Regardlesss of my position on the subject, one thing is certain, this is NOT generational.
Just how old do you think everyone at ALPA National is?

The Dominican
12-08-2016, 05:57 PM
Regardlesss of my position on the subject, one thing is certain, this is NOT generational.
Just how old do you think everyone at ALPA National is?

Have you been there? The place looks like is hosting a 70's mustache convention:rolleyes: