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tausap
12-14-2016, 02:17 AM
Hey Skywest guys, I am wondering if this Skywest Capt screwed me or if it was out of his control? Yesterday, flying RIC-DEN nonstop on an E-170, the captain told the gate agent "no standbys", including jumpseaters, even though he had 7 seats open and 4 of us waiting to get on the last way to get to DEN for the day. It was due to high headwinds and the weight being more baggage than they expected. I flew on same flight another time with approx same headwinds and they took a full load.

So, my question is, why did he not just tell dispatch they needed to make a fuel stop to take all the pax, or have them offload some bags to get the pax on? Can you not do this there? I know at UAL I have done it several times coming back from Europe on the 757, in order to accommodate all revenue and standby pax when we were weight limited. If he could've done something to get us on, and he didn't, that is lame.


zondaracer
12-14-2016, 02:20 AM
I wish you were the captain when I was trying to non-rev out of South America last year. No standbys even though there were 40 seats open. The flight as weight restricted due to high volume of belly cargo.

Softpayman
12-14-2016, 02:23 AM
Make a fuel stop so nonrevs can get on? Unlikely.


Geardownflaps30
12-14-2016, 03:38 AM
Hey Skywest guys, I am wondering if this Skywest Capt screwed me or if it was out of his control? Yesterday, flying RIC-DEN nonstop on an E-170, the captain told the gate agent "no standbys", including jumpseaters, even though he had 7 seats open and 4 of us waiting to get on the last way to get to DEN for the day. It was due to high headwinds and the weight being more baggage than they expected. I flew on same flight another time with approx same headwinds and they took a full load.

So, my question is, why did he not just tell dispatch they needed to make a fuel stop to take all the pax, or have them offload some bags to get the pax on? Can you not do this there? I know at UAL I have done it several times coming back from Europe on the 757, in order to accommodate all revenue and standby pax when we were weight limited. If he could've done something to get us on, and he didn't, that is lame.

Not going to happen to accommodate non revs.

pagey
12-14-2016, 03:39 AM
So, my question is, why did he not just tell dispatch they needed to make a fuel stop to take all the pax,

lol........

Squallrider
12-14-2016, 03:49 AM
Even if this was true it's most likely due to the new runway data being implemented across the airlines.

Fuel stop is highly unlikely

sailingfun
12-14-2016, 04:03 AM
I wish you were the captain when I was trying to non-rev out of South America last year. No standbys even though there were 40 seats open. The flight as weight restricted due to high volume of belly cargo.

So you are saying the Captain should have bumped revenue cargo off the aircraft to accommodate you as a non rev? He would certainly face disciplinary action if he choose to do so and his company would have incurred a substantial loss. Every airline I am aware of using a matrix something like this when weight restricted for deciding what does not go.
Non rev cargo
Non rev bags
Non rev passengers
Revenue cargo
Revenue bags
Revenue passengers

PerfInit
12-14-2016, 04:05 AM
Talpa.......

sailingfun
12-14-2016, 04:07 AM
Hey Skywest guys, I am wondering if this Skywest Capt screwed me or if it was out of his control? Yesterday, flying RIC-DEN nonstop on an E-170, the captain told the gate agent "no standbys", including jumpseaters, even though he had 7 seats open and 4 of us waiting to get on the last way to get to DEN for the day. It was due to high headwinds and the weight being more baggage than they expected. I flew on same flight another time with approx same headwinds and they took a full load.

So, my question is, why did he not just tell dispatch they needed to make a fuel stop to take all the pax, or have them offload some bags to get the pax on? Can you not do this there? I know at UAL I have done it several times coming back from Europe on the 757, in order to accommodate all revenue and standby pax when we were weight limited. If he could've done something to get us on, and he didn't, that is lame.

I would be shocked if UAL schedules fuel stops for non revs from Europe. I suspect what happens is they are going to have to make a fuel stop to accommodate revenue passengers. Once a stop is planned there is no point in not putting the non revs on.

TheFly
12-14-2016, 04:16 AM
TALPA is seriously effecting landing performance....on paper. What was the FICON report at the destination?

zondaracer
12-14-2016, 04:27 AM
So you are saying the Captain should have bumped revenue cargo off the aircraft to accommodate you as a non rev? He would certainly face disciplinary action if he choose to do so and his company would have incurred a substantial loss. Every airline I am aware of using a matrix something like this when weight restricted for deciding what does not go.
Non rev cargo
Non rev bags
Non rev passengers
Revenue cargo
Revenue bags
Revenue passengers

I would never expect revenue cargo to be removed for a non-rev but the OP seemed to make it sound like he has carte-Blanche to make a fuel stop for non-revs, which sounded weird.

I always have a backup plan and I got home anyway.

Simpsons
12-14-2016, 04:36 AM
A fuel stop? No

Lawn
12-14-2016, 04:49 AM
I think the real question is "why is a regional airline flying RIC-DEN?"

Duesenflieger
12-14-2016, 05:00 AM
I wish you were the captain when I was trying to non-rev out of South America last year. No standbys even though there were 40 seats open. The flight as weight restricted due to high volume of belly cargo.

Or when I was commuting from SEA to ORD on Alaska. Can't count the number of times that no standbys were allowed owing to weight issues. Yeah and no fuel stops lol

Happyflyer
12-14-2016, 05:05 AM
Coul have hit ZFW if there were that many bags, I have. UsAir bumps paying passengers before bags.

Riverside
12-14-2016, 05:19 AM
I think the real question is "why is a regional airline flying RIC-DEN?"

Better question is why is he complaining on here? Instead he could be emailing his JS rep.

redsox1
12-14-2016, 05:24 AM
I just took a look at that flight fuel load of 19900lbs. So doing a quick load plan check 66pax and 30bags max. It wasn't the capt fault.

tausap
12-14-2016, 06:04 AM
Better question is why is he complaining on here? Instead he could be emailing his JS rep.

My complaint is seeking an answer to a question, which I'm sure my JS rep doesn't have the answer to. That's what we are supposed to do as pilots, get answers to our questions. And this would be a likely place to find out exactly what captains authorities you have at Skywest.

And yes, I have always been able to work with the company to get all passengers aboard, both non-revs and paying pax, when there is a seat for them. Whether it's a fuel stop or putting cargo/bags on another flight or reworking the numbers or route...there is always a way and as the captain of an aircraft you can almost always find a way to make it happen. It's often a matter of finding it look like the best option. For those of you scoffing at making sure Non-revs get aboard (if there are empty seats of course) even if it means bumping bags or something...I take care of my fellow employees and crew members no matter what airline you are from. If you don't take care of your colleagues then they won't take care of you someday when you need it.

tausap
12-14-2016, 06:06 AM
I just took a look at that flight fuel load of 19900lbs. So doing a quick load plan check 66pax and 30bags max. It wasn't the capt fault.

Thanks....that was all I wanted to know. I wasn't sure if it was the gate/ops that made the decision or not. They just said the capt said no nonrevs because of too many bags.

moflyer
12-14-2016, 06:08 AM
Hey Skywest guys, I am wondering if this Skywest Capt screwed me or if it was out of his control? Yesterday, flying RIC-DEN nonstop on an E-170, the captain told the gate agent "no standbys", including jumpseaters, even though he had 7 seats open and 4 of us waiting to get on the last way to get to DEN for the day. It was due to high headwinds and the weight being more baggage than they expected. I flew on same flight another time with approx same headwinds and they took a full load.

So, my question is, why did he not just tell dispatch they needed to make a fuel stop to take all the pax, or have them offload some bags to get the pax on? Can you not do this there? I know at UAL I have done it several times coming back from Europe on the 757, in order to accommodate all revenue and standby pax when we were weight limited. If he could've done something to get us on, and he didn't, that is lame.
This Flight is just about as far as the 175 can go. If they had an alternate or hold fuel they would be at the limit. Dispatch tends to add hold fuel this time of day for Denver. The fuel stop thing is up to United and SkyWest as the flight will be late. I have done MCI to SFO where we made a stop to take a full load. I have also done it without the stop and booted 20 people. The reason being was there was a large group with tons of bags that were connecting to China and could not be late. I personally think this flightvis way to far forcan RJ.

tausap
12-14-2016, 06:13 AM
This Flight is just about as far as the 175 can go. If they had an alternate or hold fuel they would be at the limit. Dispatch tends to add hold fuel this time of day for Denver. The fuel stop thing is up to United and SkyWest as the flight will be late. I have done MCI to SFO where we made a stop to take a full load. I have also done it without the stop and booted 20 people. The reason being was there was a large group with tons of bags that were connecting to China and could not be late. I personally think this flightvis way to far forcan RJ.

Thanks.... I know nothing about the 175 or Skywest ops so that explains a lot. Just like 757s to Europe, they shouldn't have RJs on that long of a route...

Electra
12-14-2016, 06:15 AM
The Captain you are complaining about is a sim instructor, check-airman, and has been with the company for 20 years. I'm sure he is aware of the options available to him with regards to loading the aircraft. I'm amused, however, that you compare a trans-atlantic flight on a 75 to flying RIC-DEN. Usually you guys fly those 75's out of places on thin routes where there aren't other options, so good on you for rerouting to help out non-revs (which I have a very hard time believing, but whatever). You'd ask a crew to make a fuel stop in the midwest and delay and inconvenience all the paying passengers so you don't have to take an alternate connecting flight as a non-paying passenger? Nice.

bababouey
12-14-2016, 06:15 AM
If this is your worst non rev experience then you're in good shape.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Riverside
12-14-2016, 06:30 AM
I take care of my fellow employees and crew members no matter what airline you are from. If you don't take care of your colleagues then they won't take care of you someday when you need it.

Did OO inspire you to write that?

tausap
12-14-2016, 06:31 AM
The Captain you are complaining about is a sim instructor, check-airman, and has been with the company for 20 years. I'm sure he is aware of the options available to him with regards to loading the aircraft. I'm amused, however, that you compare a trans-atlantic flight on a 75 to flying RIC-DEN. Usually you guys fly those 75's out of places on thin routes where there aren't other options, so good on you for rerouting to help out non-revs (which I have a very hard time believing, but whatever). You'd ask a crew to make a fuel stop in the midwest and delay and inconvenience all the paying passengers so you don't have to take an alternate connecting flight as a non-paying passenger? Nice.

Stopped in Halifax just this last summer on the MAD-IAD, after they tried to route me on a southern route with no options for stopping for fuel from coast out to coast in over NJ. They were going to go with approx 40 open seats to do it. I had dispatch re-route me on the northern route to come in over Canada, like we usually do, and we accommodated everyone. It took a lot of work, teamwork and looking at options to get it to happen, but it did happen. Some guys are just lazy and don't want to do the work or are afraid to tell the company no. I have found that there is almost always a way to make it happen and get every seat filled. Almost. Sure, there are times its just not possible, but many times those planes leave with seats open and people at the gate, its just due to someone not going the extra mile to find a way.

Not sure why you are being negative about making sure non-revs get aboard but whatever. Just because he is a check airman and instructor does not impress me. I know plenty of those types. They don't fly enough to know how to make things happen on the line. They only know the book.

At UAL, cockpit jumpseaters are included in the BOW, so they can never be bumped for weight limits. Wasn't sure if that was the same at Skywest. At UAL If a gate agent tries to tell anyone they can't jumpseat because of weight limits (and they do sometimes), that is BS. Make sure you get to the captain.

minimwage4
12-14-2016, 06:35 AM
Did I log into Airliners.net? Is this thing on?

Utah
12-14-2016, 06:38 AM
You bump revenue bags to get non-revs on?

tausap
12-14-2016, 06:47 AM
Did I log into Airliners.net? Is this thing on?. Nothin to see here....move along. :)


Was just trying to find out what went on because it seemed fishy. I wasn't sure if gate agents were giving the whole story or leaving with empty seats because of time constraints. Anywho, if we all take care off non-revs and go the extra mile it'll benefit us all. Don't know why that's controversial.

Packrat
12-14-2016, 06:51 AM
When Alaska first started MCO-SEA on the -900 we would routinely go with 30-35 open seats in the winter.due to fuel requirements and weight restrictions. The -800 fixed that.

jethikoki
12-14-2016, 06:56 AM
You bump revenue bags to get non-revs on?
Why not if you can? Trouble is ALPA/APA and the rest have allowed the Capt authority to basically have hardly any authority anymore. There was a day when a Capt could allow any pilot he wants to occupy his js with or without an agreement. Now look how bad it's gotten. AA is a great example. We need to find ways to get his authority back rather then the current system that leaves so many behind without good reasons. (Not referring to the aforementioned Skywest issue.)

tausap
12-14-2016, 07:00 AM
Why not if you can? Trouble is ALPA/APA and the rest have allowed the Capt authority to basically have hardly any authority anymore. There was a day when a Capt could allow any pilot he wants to occupy his js with or without an agreement. Now look how bad it's gotten. AA is a great example. We need to find ways to get his authority back rather then the current system that leaves so many behind without good reasons. (Not referring to the aforementioned Skywest issue.)

Yes. Thank you! When I used to JS Pan Am as a young regional pilot I watched those captains do what they had to to get nonrevs on and it benefitted me many times . I've always tried to do the same.

In my not so eloquent and blundering way perhaps I insulted some of you but that was not my intention. I just wanted A) information and B) to point out that there is often a way to get everyone on board with some extra work on our parts.

pagey
12-14-2016, 07:01 AM
Why not if you can? Trouble is ALPA/APA and the rest have allowed the Capt authority to basically have hardly any authority anymore. There was a day when a Capt could allow any pilot he wants to occupy his js with or without an agreement. Now look how bad it's gotten. AA is a great example. We need to find ways to get his authority back rather then the current system that leaves so many behind without good reasons. (Not referring to the aforementioned Skywest issue.)

I'm a commuter......This is dumb though. How are you bumping paying passengers **** for non revs?

N6279P
12-14-2016, 07:11 AM
When Alaska first started MCO-SEA on the -900 we would routinely go with 30-35 open seats in the winter.due to fuel requirements and weight restrictions. The -800 fixed that.

So instead of leaving with 30 open seats, they just swapped equipment with 30 less seats and that's "fixing" the problem?

Mercyful Fate
12-14-2016, 07:12 AM
Hey Skywest guys, I am wondering if this Skywest Capt screwed me or if it was out of his control? Yesterday, flying RIC-DEN nonstop on an E-170, the captain told the gate agent "no standbys", including jumpseaters, even though he had 7 seats open and 4 of us waiting to get on the last way to get to DEN for the day. It was due to high headwinds and the weight being more baggage than they expected. I flew on same flight another time with approx same headwinds and they took a full load.

So, my question is, why did he not just tell dispatch they needed to make a fuel stop to take all the pax, or have them offload some bags to get the pax on? Can you not do this there? I know at UAL I have done it several times coming back from Europe on the 757, in order to accommodate all revenue and standby pax when we were weight limited. If he could've done something to get us on, and he didn't, that is lame.

Wow, so you have access to the flight releases and flight plan information for these flights to make such a claim? Too bad you didn't step back and read this post before you hit the submit button. You are going to get torn to shreds.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/hbal.gif

jethikoki
12-14-2016, 07:13 AM
I'm a commuter......This is dumb though. How are you bumping paying passengers **** for non revs?
Yes very dumb to bump paying pax. But who the h*!! said anything about bumping revenue pax? I guess in today's environment you have to be so explicit to the minute detail you cannot make your point understood.

FTFF
12-14-2016, 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah
You bump revenue bags to get non-revs on?
-------

Why not if you can?

I'll show you why not. What airline do you work for?

To the OP, you've had the luck not to have flown RJ's in the past. They have weight limit issues and balance problems, especially the 50 seaters and due to their smaller size and smaller flight times there is little wiggle room to work with. Furthermore, at least for the regional I worked at, United neither asked for, listened to, or cared about my opinions on loading or ideas how to make it all work so I'm pretty confident it wasn't an issue with the Captain.

As a commuter and frequent nonrevver I sincerely appreciate your tenacity in getting non revs onboard. As a high value paying customer, I'm not too excited you'll screw up my connections and bump my bags to get non revenue payload on your aircraft.

Squallrider
12-14-2016, 07:57 AM
So instead of leaving with 30 open seats, they just swapped equipment with 30 less seats and that's "fixing" the problem?

I think he meant the route was swapped from a CRJ 900 to a 737-800 so better useful load etc

tausap
12-14-2016, 08:06 AM
Wow, so you have access to the flight releases and flight plan information for these flights to make such a claim? Too bad you didn't step back and read this post before you hit the submit button. You are going to get torn to shreds.


If people feel like they have to tear me "to shreds" for asking an honest question, go ahead. If I had access to the flight plans, -175 performance, etc, I wouldn't need to ask the question. I re-read it several times and was simply asking, without insulting, if this captain had options or did he leave non-revs off because it was easier? Or perhaps it was the gate agents that just blamed the captain for their decision? I don't know the culture or captains authority at Skywest. It's why I asked.

My post said that if he left non-revs off when he COULD'VE done something to accommodate them, then that is lame. If he couldn't have done anything... due to operational or other constraints, than so be it. All I ask, as should any of us, is that we all do our best and sometimes take the initiative to think outside the box and find ways to accommodate everyone that wants to go if we can. Some of us, including some of my colleagues at UAL as well, get lazy and stop being captains and let others operate our plane for us and dictate everything to us. If we do our best and just can't do it, fine. But if we don't even try, then that IS lame. I don't know if this guy looked at other options or not....that's why I asked if you guys can even do that. If you get offended at that then I don't know what to tell you.

JesuitValen
12-14-2016, 08:08 AM
So, my question is, why did he not just tell dispatch they needed to make a fuel stop to take all the pax, or have them offload some bags to get the pax on? .

It's close to the holidays,he probably thought he wanted to keep his job. Selfish materialism if you ask me.

You're just trolling right? You're not being serious?

tausap
12-14-2016, 08:10 AM
I'll show you why not. What airline do you work for?

To the OP, you've had the luck not to have flown RJ's in the past. They have weight limit issues and balance problems, especially the 50 seaters and due to their smaller size and smaller flight times there is little wiggle room to work with. Furthermore, at least for the regional I worked at, United neither asked for, listened to, or cared about my opinions on loading or ideas how to make it all work so I'm pretty confident it wasn't an issue with the Captain.

As a commuter and frequent nonrevver I sincerely appreciate your tenacity in getting non revs onboard. As a high value paying customer, I'm not too excited you'll screw up my connections and bump my bags to get non revenue payload on your aircraft.

Good thoughtful reply....thanks.

And I would've loved to have flown RJs. I flew metroliners and J-31s. No autopilot, no lav, no FA.... :)

EngineOut
12-14-2016, 08:14 AM
If people feel like they have to tear me "to shreds" for asking an honest question, go ahead. If I had access to the flight plans, -175 performance, etc, I wouldn't need to ask the question. I re-read it several times and was simply asking, without insulting, if this captain had options or did he leave non-revs off because it was easier? Or perhaps it was the gate agents that just blamed the captain for their decision? I don't know the culture or captains authority at Skywest. It's why I asked.

My post said that if he left non-revs off when he COULD'VE done something to accommodate them, then that is lame. If he couldn't have done anything... due to operational or other constraints, than so be it. All I ask, as should any of us, is that we all do our best and sometimes take the initiative to think outside the box and find ways to accommodate everyone that wants to go if we can. Some of us, including some of my colleagues at UAL as well, get lazy and stop being captains and let others operate our plane for us and dictate everything to us. If we do our best and just can't do it, fine. But if we don't even try, then that IS lame. I don't know if this guy looked at other options or not....that's why I asked if you guys can even do that. If you get offended at that then I don't know what to tell you.

The very BASIS of your question is insulting and self-righteous, regardless of how you asked it. This is likely why you are getting severe blow-back for "just a question."

JesuitValen
12-14-2016, 08:22 AM
Never mind. I should have read whole thread.

Duesenflieger
12-14-2016, 08:28 AM
Good thoughtful reply....thanks.

And I would've loved to have flown RJs. I flew metroliners and J-31s. No autopilot, no lav, no FA.... :)

If you're truly interested I can refer you to HR.... We'll split the sign-on bonus.

navigatro
12-14-2016, 08:29 AM
to the OP:

I agree in principle that the crews should do whatever is REASONABLE to help out the non-revs.

If you honestly believe the captain should have bumped REVENUE pax or bags, or requested a fuel stop, to allow NON-REVS on, then you have no clue.

Think about where your paycheck comes from.

ClickClickBoom
12-14-2016, 08:29 AM
Or perhaps it was the gate agents that just blamed the captain for their decision?

This

Some of us, including some of my colleagues at UAL as well, get lazy and stop being captains and let others operate our plane for us and dictate everything to us.

Quite a few guys, have been commuters, most will go out of their way to get non-revs onboard, I have. If you get lazy about non-revs, other stuff isn't far behind, being a Captain means you have to know what is in your wheelhouse and what isn't. 20 years later I still go up into the gate area to check for JSers.

Mercyful Fate
12-14-2016, 08:40 AM
The very BASIS of your question is insulting and self-righteous, regardless of how you asked it. This is likely why you are getting severe blow-back for "just a question."


https://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnd5m7Grml1qk1ath.jpg

pagey
12-14-2016, 08:43 AM
Yes very dumb to bump paying pax. But who the h*!! said anything about bumping revenue pax? I guess in today's environment you have to be so explicit to the minute detail you cannot make your point understood.

what I said was paying passengers shti.....as in their stuff. It was censored by the site. Yes, it's dumb to remove paying passengers stuff for non revs.

Lawn
12-14-2016, 08:55 AM
Better question is why is he complaining on here? Instead he could be emailing his JS rep.

What is his rep going to do? call the captain and yell at him? Think about how ridiculous that sounds.

madeinUSA
12-14-2016, 09:12 AM
lol........
I would have at least given it a shot. The worse they could do is laugh in your face.

tunes
12-14-2016, 11:42 AM
At UAL, cockpit jumpseaters are included in the BOW, so they can never be bumped for weight limits.

Pretty sure thats only for UAL pilots and not offline

Around123
12-14-2016, 11:53 AM
Whatever decision the captain makes is final. He is in charge of that aircraft. The final authority of that aircraft.

This thread disrespects captain authority all across the industry.

Simpsons
12-14-2016, 12:03 PM
That would be pretty good to see the faces on the United execs when they'd be told one of their contract airlines was late because they made a fuel stop to get nonrevs on

sailingfun
12-14-2016, 12:06 PM
My complaint is seeking an answer to a question, which I'm sure my JS rep doesn't have the answer to. That's what we are supposed to do as pilots, get answers to our questions. And this would be a likely place to find out exactly what captains authorities you have at Skywest.

And yes, I have always been able to work with the company to get all passengers aboard, both non-revs and paying pax, when there is a seat for them. Whether it's a fuel stop or putting cargo/bags on another flight or reworking the numbers or route...there is always a way and as the captain of an aircraft you can almost always find a way to make it happen. It's often a matter of finding it look like the best option. For those of you scoffing at making sure Non-revs get aboard (if there are empty seats of course) even if it means bumping bags or something...I take care of my fellow employees and crew members no matter what airline you are from. If you don't take care of your colleagues then they won't take care of you someday when you need it.

It's interesting that your company allows the Captain to schedule a fuel stop to allow non revs to be boarded. The costs for the extra stop will be large assuming you don't miss connect passengers. If you miss connect passengers the costs could be huge. You also delay at least one flight outbound and perhaps as many as 3 outbound flights depending on where the pilots and flight attendants go on arrival assuming no one times out. Crew costs will also go up substantially with the increase in block for the stop. You work for a company with great management. Not sure how long they will stay in business however.

sailingfun
12-14-2016, 12:12 PM
If people feel like they have to tear me "to shreds" for asking an honest question, go ahead. If I had access to the flight plans, -175 performance, etc, I wouldn't need to ask the question. I re-read it several times and was simply asking, without insulting, if this captain had options or did he leave non-revs off because it was easier? Or perhaps it was the gate agents that just blamed the captain for their decision? I don't know the culture or captains authority at Skywest. It's why I asked.

My post said that if he left non-revs off when he COULD'VE done something to accommodate them, then that is lame. If he couldn't have done anything... due to operational or other constraints, than so be it. All I ask, as should any of us, is that we all do our best and sometimes take the initiative to think outside the box and find ways to accommodate everyone that wants to go if we can. Some of us, including some of my colleagues at UAL as well, get lazy and stop being captains and let others operate our plane for us and dictate everything to us. If we do our best and just can't do it, fine. But if we don't even try, then that IS lame. I don't know if this guy looked at other options or not....that's why I asked if you guys can even do that. If you get offended at that then I don't know what to tell you.

You need to reread your first post including the thread title.

sailingfun
12-14-2016, 12:15 PM
Quite a few guys, have been commuters, most will go out of their way to get non-revs onboard, I have. If you get lazy about non-revs, other stuff isn't far behind, being a Captain means you have to know what is in your wheelhouse and what isn't. 20 years later I still go up into the gate area to check for JSers.

So you would schedule a fuel stop to get non revs onboard? I do everything I can to get every non rev aboard however I will not make a decision that negatively impacts the revenue passengers. They are the reason we have jobs.

Riverside
12-14-2016, 12:56 PM
Next it will be ohhhhhhh they didn't take me because they have two alternates and they will be overweight on landing. Why can't they fly to their first alternate then fly back so they'll be underweight.

Lawn
12-14-2016, 01:23 PM
Next it will be ohhhhhhh they didn't take me because they have two alternates and they will be overweight on landing. Why can't they fly to their first alternate then fly back so they'll be underweight.

Somebody gets it!

amcnd
12-14-2016, 01:33 PM
They just came out to a revision to TALPA should help TO performance..

Turbosina
12-14-2016, 03:48 PM
I am having real trouble believing the OP is a UAL CA.

BlueMoon
12-14-2016, 04:43 PM
Whatever decision the captain makes is final. He is in charge of that aircraft. The final authority of that aircraft.

This thread disrespects captain authority all across the industry.

This is true, but with the caveat that while you do have final authority over the aircraft, you don't have immunity from repercussions of your decision making.

Sliceback
12-14-2016, 05:06 PM
What is his rep going to do? call the captain and yell at him? Think about how ridiculous that sounds.

Tell his JS coordinator to demand that they do fuel stops to get non revs on board!

Happyflyer
12-14-2016, 05:38 PM
Yes. Thank you! When I used to JS Pan Am as a young regional pilot I watched those captains do what they had to to get nonrevs on and it benefitted me many times . I've always tried to do the same.

In my not so eloquent and blundering way perhaps I insulted some of you but that was not my intention. I just wanted A) information and B) to point out that there is often a way to get everyone on board with some extra work on our parts.


I tried to JS on United, gate agent said she couldn't find me in CASS and I could not board. I insisted I could occupy one of the 20 open cabin seats; said she'd talk to the captain, 5 min later she came up and said nope. It was too late for me to log on a buy a zed so I got left.
Lazy United captain wouldn't come up, or even consult his own manual which says you don't have to be in CASS

Mercyful Fate
12-14-2016, 08:57 PM
That would be pretty good to see the faces on the United execs when they'd be told one of their contract airlines was late because they made a fuel stop to get nonrevs on

I am guessing the thread starter is probably doing this right now...

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z302/BAD_WOLF_13/Comment%20Gifs/sad%20-%20depressed/holeanddie.gif

threeighteen
12-15-2016, 12:10 AM
I think he meant the route was swapped from a CRJ 900 to a 737-800 so better useful load etc

You really think a CRJ-900 could do MCO-SEA? :p

Geardownflaps30
12-15-2016, 02:33 AM
You really think a CRJ-900 could do MCO-SEA? :p

Yes. You simply shut down one engine during cruise and restart it on the descent!

:rolleyes:

(Note...^^^^sarcasm alert for those whose sarcasm detectors are mel'd.)

Squallrider
12-15-2016, 03:09 AM
You really think a CRJ-900 could do MCO-SEA? :p

Lol no I have sfo on the brain and that's what my brain read

Sliceback
12-15-2016, 04:00 AM
It could if there were non revs on board.

Squallrider
12-15-2016, 05:21 AM
You really think a CRJ-900 could do MCO-SEA? :p

Although I'm sure technically it could I mean mesa got a 200 from Hawaii to la

pagey
12-15-2016, 05:54 AM
Whatever decision the captain makes is final. He is in charge of that aircraft. The final authority of that aircraft.

This thread disrespects captain authority all across the industry.

Stop being so dramatic. It's not YOUR aircraft, and you aren't working for yourself. The only reason you are even sitting in that seat with the ability to have any sort of authority is because the company hired you to do so.

"Captain authority" also includes sound decision making. Wasting thousands of dollars on a fuel stop or bumping people's bags that PAID MONEY to fly, is unequivocally idiotic. "captain authority" relates to safety and operational aspects, it doesn't give you carte blanche to waste the company's money or change their business model.

Get real dude. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

ClickClickBoom
12-15-2016, 08:19 AM
So you would schedule a fuel stop to get non revs onboard? I do everything I can to get every non rev aboard however I will not make a decision that negatively impacts the revenue passengers. They are the reason we have jobs.
Regardless what the armchair experts on APC say, Captains do NOT schedule fuel stops. What I said is I would make every effort, within my authority.

Mercyful Fate
12-15-2016, 09:06 AM
Regardless what the armchair experts on APC say, Captains do NOT schedule fuel stops. What I said is I would make every effort, within my authority.

Would be interesting to see how many of these armchair experts on here actually think a captain has such authority to plan fuel stops.

GogglesPisano
12-15-2016, 10:00 AM
Whatever decision the captain makes is final. He is in charge of that aircraft. The final authority of that aircraft.

This thread disrespects captain authority all across the industry.

Yes. But will he have a job when he lands?

Riverside
12-15-2016, 10:35 AM
What is his rep going to do? call the captain and yell at him? Think about how ridiculous that sounds.

Actually it does. I would say think about it. But obviously you can't. So I'm going to let that go. But if you think that calling the captain is the JS committee only function, then keep raising that gear.

encore
12-15-2016, 11:06 AM
"Captain's Authority" is all about giving the captain the power to do what he/she needs to do in order to safely complete the flight.

Other than that, we are employees paid by a company to operate an airplane owned by a company in the manner in which they want it operated.

Every person screaming "captain's authority!!!" with stupid things like nonrevs or catering or whatever is central to the degradation of captain's authority in the first place. You're your (and everyone elses') own worst enemy.

sweetholyjesus
12-15-2016, 11:22 AM
"Captain's Authority" is all about giving the captain the power to do what he/she needs to do in order to safely complete the flight.

Other than that, we are employees paid by a company to operate an airplane owned by a company in the manner in which they want it operated.

Every person screaming "captain's authority!!!" with stupid things like nonrevs or catering or whatever is central to the degradation of captain's authority in the first place. You're your (and everyone elses') own worst enemy.
Anyone who disagrees with this needs to amputate their best typing finger.

dontcare4U
12-15-2016, 11:24 AM
"Captain's Authority" is all about giving the captain the power to do what he/she needs to do in order to safely complete the flight.

Other than that, we are employees paid by a company to operate an airplane owned by a company in the manner in which they want it operated.

Every person screaming "captain's authority!!!" with stupid things like nonrevs or catering or whatever is central to the degradation of captain's authority in the first place. You're your (and everyone elses') own worst enemy.]

This right here!!

rickair7777
12-15-2016, 02:02 PM
"Captain's Authority" is all about giving the captain the power to do what he/she needs to do in order to safely complete the flight.

Other than that, we are employees paid by a company to operate an airplane owned by a company in the manner in which they want it operated.

Every person screaming "captain's authority!!!" with stupid things like nonrevs or catering or whatever is central to the degradation of captain's authority in the first place. You're your (and everyone elses') own worst enemy.


This. You generally are going to need to declare an emergency to exercise PIC authority to overide regs, laws, or company policy.

PIC authority does not grant you unlimited ability to run the ship like a petty tyrant in any manner you see fit, waste the company's money, perform weddings, execute mutineers, etc. If you want to do that get a commission in the British Navy circa 1600 or signon with a modern-day pirate ship.

rickair7777
12-15-2016, 02:05 PM
Would be interesting to see how many of these armchair experts on here actually think a captain has such authority to plan fuel stops.

They don't, at least at regionals. Regionals almost never use fuel stops, and a CA who called DX to request a fuel stop for nonrevs would be laughed off the phone. We routinely leave revenue pax and baggage behind because mainline pays us to be on time, not to make fuel stops.

All that said, I'll manipulate things to the degree which I can to accommodate nonrevs. I maintain a good on-time track record so when I want to take a delay to work a W&B issue I can do that at my leisure.

ClickClickBoom
12-15-2016, 08:02 PM
Dirty Sanchez......

Turbosina
12-15-2016, 08:18 PM
perform weddings, execute mutineers, etc.

Thank you. I needed that. It's been a long day and I needed a good laugh :D

SigHansen
12-15-2016, 08:24 PM
Absolutely disgusting and ridiculous post, tausap. Jumpseating and non-rev'ing isnt a right. It's a privilege. Way to be a selfish tool. Jumping to conclusions.

Are you even trained on the E175 and know it's limitations?

snackysmores
12-15-2016, 10:52 PM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/Star_Trek_-_In_Before_the_Lock.gif

Foxy
12-16-2016, 12:35 AM
This can't be a serious post...

... can it?

-Fox

Poser765
12-16-2016, 03:38 AM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/Star_Trek_-_In_Before_the_Lock.gifcoolant leak! Bridge we've got a coolant leak! Everyone out!

TalkTurkey
12-16-2016, 08:44 AM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/Star_Trek_-_In_Before_the_Lock.gif

idk but gordi didn't have to roll. He was at the door when it began closing and could simply have walked right out. Bad director haha

Bravix
12-17-2016, 02:14 AM
idk but gordi didn't have to roll. He was at the door when it began closing and could simply have walked right out. Bad director haha

Everyone knows that leaking warp reactor coolant messes with the brain. He probably wasn't thinking straight.

METO Guido
12-17-2016, 06:57 AM
idk but gordi didn't have to roll. He was at the door when it began closing and could simply have walked right out. Bad director haha
The foster grants maybe.

So you don't make it across, that door becomes a deli slicer?

beverage
12-17-2016, 11:41 AM
Pretty sure thats only for UAL pilots and not offline

So the aircraft BOW changes depending on if the jumpseater is company or OAL? :rolleyes:

Rook
12-18-2016, 05:33 AM
Quite a few guys, have been commuters, most will go out of their way to get non-revs onboard, I have. If you get lazy about non-revs, other stuff isn't far behind, being a Captain means you have to know what is in your wheelhouse and what isn't. 20 years later I still go up into the gate area to check for JSers.

1000 likes👍

John Carr
12-18-2016, 08:49 AM
Hey Skywest guys, I am wondering if this Skywest Capt screwed me or if it was out of his control? Yesterday, flying RIC-DEN nonstop on an E-170, the captain told the gate agent "no standbys", including jumpseaters, even though he had 7 seats open and 4 of us waiting to get on the last way to get to DEN for the day. It was due to high headwinds and the weight being more baggage than they expected. I flew on same flight another time with approx same headwinds and they took a full load.

So, my question is, why did he not just tell dispatch they needed to make a fuel stop to take all the pax, or have them offload some bags to get the pax on? Can you not do this there? I know at UAL I have done it several times coming back from Europe on the 757, in order to accommodate all revenue and standby pax when we were weight limited. If he could've done something to get us on, and he didn't, that is lame.

Sooooooo........

I'm guessing you never tried to ride on a route that got switched to a 737 instead of a 757 and takes a 20k plus weight hit for conditions on landing?

Jesus, why didn't the CA plan a fuel stop?