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BushFlyer64
01-09-2017, 11:36 PM
Are you a first officer fed up waiting for the PIC seat because of seniority? Are you a captain who’d like to get paid much more for what you already do? Has the regular commuter route between Phoenix and San Diego been driving you nuts? Has your dream aviator adventure turned into a droll grind job? Would you like to make three to four times as much as you’re making now in North and South America, and Europe, completing the same exact duties you’re doing now?

How about following the money to China?


Here’s what one airline in China is offering:



Compensation: (net amount to pilot)
Option A (Annual 50 days leave)
$19,958 to $20,569 USD per month made up of:
$18,000 USD base service fee per month
$833 USD travel allowance ($10,000 USD paid every 6 months)
$500-1,111 USD annual bonus based on service years ($18,000-40,000 USD paid every three years)
$625 USD safety bonus ($7,500 USD paid annually)
PLUS $365 USD per block hour over 75 hours/month.


Option B (6 weeks on / 2 weeks off)
$18,758 to $19,369 USD per month made up of:
$16,800 USD base service fee per month
$833 USD travel allowance ($10,000 USD paid every 6 months)
$500-1,111 USD annual bonus based on service years ($18,000-40,000 USD paid every three years)
$625 USD safety bonus ($7,500 USD paid annually)
PLUS $240 USD per block hour over 75 hours/month.


Travel Benefits:Two roundtrip international tickets (50% off) per contract year
Two round trip domestic tickets (75% off) per contract year
Two additional employing airline tickets at 75% off


$365/hour overtime


There are many more opportunities!


These are the Minimum Requirements



30-53 years of age at the start of the assignment


Valid ATPL in type 320, 737, 787


Valid Category I Instrument Landing Rating


Valid Class I Medical


English proficient


No history of incidents or accidents


No criminal records


3,000 hours TT and 600 hours PIC in large aircraft


Current in type within 12 months


Email your resume to: [email protected]


Braniff DC8
01-10-2017, 12:34 AM
Don't fall for it it's a trick. If it sounds to good to be true it probably is.

sailingfun
01-10-2017, 04:12 AM
Don't fall for it it's a trick. If it sounds to good to be true it probably is.

Ask how many days a month they expect you to work!!


Sliceback
01-10-2017, 05:04 AM
Tired of commuting? Move to China! LOL. Okay, I guess that's a sales pitch.

Ask about the medical. Ask how long training is. Ask what training pay is.

"Toto, I've got a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore."

Ohlsan
01-10-2017, 05:06 AM
What are the duty location options?
How many days on/off per month?
What are the living arrangements?
What is a typical daily schedule?

SEPfield
01-10-2017, 06:05 AM
600hrs PIC in Large aircraft. What constitutes large?

China, you need to reconsider your recruiting tactics. There are very few US pilots that have an A320 or B737 type that are going to even consider coming to China. There are probably close to zero pilots with PIC time in those type that are considering China.
The US pilots with time in those types are already working for a better airline than a regional, and they are more likely to get a job with a major.

If you want to recruit US pilots then you need to focus on the regional pilots. Try offering NTR Captain positions in a 320/737 to pilots with 500 pic in a CRJ/ERJ.

If you honestly think US based pilots with a 320/737 type and time in type are leaving the US to come fly in China, then you have been breathing your own air for too long.

The Dominican
01-10-2017, 07:17 AM
If you honestly think US based pilots with a 320/737 type and time in type are leaving the US to come fly in China, then you have been breathing your own air for too long.

Are you sure about that? I know of more than a few guys that at the very least..., are looking into it! :rolleyes:

Think about what you are saying for a moment...., For example, an A320 check airman at one of the low cost on his mid 50's, empty nester, with and adventurous other half with a taste for the exotic...., that won't start at the bottom of the pile at the brand X for many reasons..... But do you really think that it would be so out of any possibility that he would consider upwards of 350K after tax for the last 5 years and retire with a nice nest egg at 60?

PotatoChip
01-10-2017, 08:25 AM
Are you sure about that? I know of more than a few guys that at the very least..., are looking into it! :rolleyes:

Think about what you are saying for a moment...., For example, an A320 check airman at one of the low cost on his mid 50's, empty nester, with and adventurous other half with a taste for the exotic...., that won't start at the bottom of the pile at the brand X for many reasons..... But do you really think that it would be so out of any possibility that he would consider upwards of 350K after tax for the last 5 years and retire with a nice nest egg at 60?

This ^^^
There are people out there that will definitely consider it. A 25 year SWA captain? No, probably not. A recently divorced Spirit/Frontier captain? Maybe.

SEPfield
01-10-2017, 09:52 AM
Are you sure about that? I know of more than a few guys that at the very least..., are looking into it! :rolleyes:

Think about what you are saying for a moment...., For example, an A320 check airman at one of the low cost on his mid 50's, empty nester, with and adventurous other half with a taste for the exotic...., that won't start at the bottom of the pile at the brand X for many reasons..... But do you really think that it would be so out of any possibility that he would consider upwards of 350K after tax for the last 5 years and retire with a nice nest egg at 60?

Sorry I forgot on APC everything is taken literally and I forgot to add the necessary quantifies. Yes there will be Some pilots that will consider it. I would not say Many or even A lot. Of course there will be outliers and everyone has their own unique situation, however I don't believe China or even Japan is going to solve its pilot problem with some outliers.

I've been an expat before and I enjoy it, in fact I'm getting bored flying in and out of podunk towns in the US in a RJ. I like the money in China and the commuting options but there needs to be an element of career progression. Currently the only company offering that aspect is skymark in Japan and I need about 400 more pic hrs to qualify.

PotatoChip
01-10-2017, 02:55 PM
Sorry I forgot on APC everything is taken literally and I forgot to add the necessary quantifies. Yes there will be Some pilots that will consider it. I would not say Many or even A lot. Of course there will be outliers and everyone has their own unique situation, however I don't believe China or even Japan is going to solve its pilot problem with some outliers.
bout 400 more pic hrs to qualify.

Soooo... we should stop taking what people post on APC literally? Hmm. This is going to become very confusing.

trip
01-10-2017, 03:40 PM
. Currently the only company offering that aspect is skymark in Japan and I need about 400 more pic hrs to qualify.

Several are taking NTR CRJ drivers now. For a young guy with a mountain of school debt it would be a way to dig out for 3-5 years while building PIC.

https://jobs.flightglobal.com/jobs/flight-crew/

http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/1198263/8bf34260ed/TEST/TEST/

SEPfield
01-10-2017, 05:29 PM
Several are taking NTR CRJ drivers now. For a young guy with a mountain of school debt it would be a way to dig out for 3-5 years while building PIC.

https://jobs.flightglobal.com/jobs/flight-crew/

A320 Non Rated & Rated Captain Jobs (http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/1198263/8bf34260ed/TEST/TEST/)

The only one I see there for NTR captain is Chengdu, first china one I've seen. Interesting.

The Dominican
01-11-2017, 01:06 AM
Things are going to get very interesting in the next few years......, right now all the A320 gigs in Japan are taking non-rated DEC's a friend of mine just went from IBEX flying the CRJ's to Peach as a DEC on the 320...., places like China Eastern, China Airlines that historically just took rated guys..., are now interviewing and hiring non rated pilots....., some of these opportunities are not even being promoted yet.

That's how fast things are moving

SEPfield
01-11-2017, 06:36 AM
Things are going to get very interesting in the next few years......, right now all the A320 gigs in Japan are taking non-rated DEC's a friend of mine just went from IBEX flying the CRJ's to Peach as a DEC on the 320...., places like China Eastern, China Airlines that historically just took rated guys..., are now interviewing and hiring non rated pilots....., some of these opportunities are not even being promoted yet.

That's how fast things are moving

I agree the opportunities are definitely increasing at a rapid rate. That's why I was saying guys with a type and time type are unlikely to go to China. I should have said in a 320. Pilots with pic time in a 320 will be qualified for 330 jobs soon, if not already.

Japan has some interesting contracts for sure, but the pay is somewhat low and that training footprint is ridiculous. 8 months is crazy. In 8 months I could go to Spirit get a type and have 500hrs in type. I would then be qualified for a job in China for double the money and a better commute.

Granted residency in Japan is probably a better option than residency in China.

Braniff DC8
01-11-2017, 05:18 PM
SEP, been here, done that. Flying in and out of podunk towns would be my dream again and hopefully this year it will come true. Go read flying upside down. It's worth it. If you've never been or flown in and out of Chila, you'll be in for a bit of a shock. I honestly never want to leave the U.S. again. You give up a lot being an expat. It gets old after a while. You will not be treated like a person and the punitive culture will burn you out quickly. Again, bases and bonuses are tricks to get you to sign then reality sets in.

NEDude
01-11-2017, 10:28 PM
SEP, been here, done that. Flying in and out of podunk towns would be my dream again and hopefully this year it will come true. Go read flying upside down. It's worth it. If you've never been or flown in and out of Chila, you'll be in for a bit of a shock. I honestly never want to leave the U.S. again. You give up a lot being an expat. It gets old after a while. You will not be treated like a person and the punitive culture will burn you out quickly. Again, bases and bonuses are tricks to get you to sign then reality sets in.

In my three years in China I was never cheated out of pay. I always got what was promised. That was not the issue. My issues with China were the difficulty of the operation (delays, having to declare "pan-pan-pan" in order to not fly through thunderstorms, punishment culture), lack of SOPs (they vary widely based on what the FO's instructor told them in training - the manual means nothing to them), the questionable food safety, the choking pollution, the overcrowding, the constant onslaught of noise, the distance from family and the on/off ability to contact them due to censorship.

The money is great, without question. But it does come with a lot of baggage. I used my time in China to pay off all my debts, build a nice little nest egg, and finish getting my EASA ATPL so I can now work in Europe. Glad I did it because the end result was nice, but certainly have no desire to return. That was confirmed a few weeks ago when I was at my home airport and getting ready to fly to the UK for my current job and I walked past the gate for the flight I used to take to Beijing, which was in the process of boarding. Had all of the memories of boarding that flight and stepping into the month long abyss of being in China and realised I was nowhere near ready to even consider doing it again.

Denti
01-12-2017, 07:52 AM
My company provided some "new captains" to chinese airlines as secondments. They were FOs without any prior command experience, they got an upgrade plus 100 hundred hours line training and after that started to fly as commanders in china on A320 or 737. They all had several thousands hours on those types however. Recency required on type was within the last three years.

Captains with PIC time on A320 were offered immediate A330 positions, on 737 immediate 787 and 777 positions.

Spin
01-12-2017, 12:27 PM
I wouldn't work in China for a million dollars a year.
Money is not everything in life.

atpcliff
01-12-2017, 07:30 PM
Some Chinese carriers offer "Reverse Rostering" in North America. For example, your base is SFO, and all your trips start and end out of SFO.

Talked to a guy who was an E-170 FO. He interviewed, with others in his same situation, for E-175 DEC (Direct Entry Captain) in China. He had 0 PIC on the E-170.

An AA pilot, who is very knowledgeable on China, recently posted he thought salaries would be as high as $700K/year in China in about 3 years for DECs.

Braniff DC8
01-12-2017, 10:31 PM
The reverse rostering is a ruse they use to convince you to sign. It may or may not be true. Once you sign they have you and will do whatever they please including giving you a new contract or just repeatedly violating the old one. You also have to fly right seat for a while and just wait to sit in those Chinese cockpits.

Please find and read flying upside down.



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