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View Full Version : Frustrated Regional Pilots


Wildcard90W
02-06-2017, 08:00 PM
So I have 8,000 hours, three type ratings, and I have been Capt on two different regional jets. I'm a Line Pilot Instructor (Simulator and GFS), I'm a Pilot Mentor for my airline, and I'm an FFDO. I've had apps out since 2012 (I was an FO for 7 years from '07-'14 not by choice), and have updated at LEAST once a month. I have seven internal recs at Delta and United, six internal recs at AA, three internals at UPS, and two at FedEx. So far I have attended two job fairs (FAPA and WAI 2016). Despite thousands of guys getting hired the last two years, the only thing I have received are TWO "fix it" emails from Delta. The first one didn't bother me, but the second one ****ed me off big time. I'm 34 years old and I'm watching 26-28 year old first officers at my regional airline go straight to the legacy carriers. I'm frustrated to the point of changing careers. Thoughts?


Otterbox
02-06-2017, 08:33 PM
Only places I noticed you applying are the same places that everyone else likely has an app in.

Have a professional interview prep/mentor company review your apps/resume for things you missed. DAL scored your app twice and found mistakes both times- there's a decent chance the other places may be doing so as well.

Consider going to a U/LCC. It might show your career has stopped stagnating, and they could be a decent place to make a career out of if you don't make it to a Legacy/Cargo.

Whiplash6
02-06-2017, 08:41 PM
So I have 8,000 hours, three type ratings, and I have been Capt on two different regional jets. I'm a Line Pilot Instructor (Simulator and GFS), I'm a Pilot Mentor for my airline, and I'm an FFDO. I've had apps out since 2012 (I was an FO for 7 years from '07-'14 not by choice), and have updated at LEAST once a month. I have seven internal recs at Delta and United, six internal recs at AA, three internals at UPS, and two at FedEx. So far I have attended two job fairs (FAPA and WAI 2016). Despite thousands of guys getting hired the last two years, the only thing I have received are TWO "fix it" emails from Delta. The first one didn't bother me, but the second one ****ed me off big time. I'm 34 years old and I'm watching 26-28 year old first officers at my regional airline go straight to the legacy carriers. I'm frustrated to the point of changing careers. Thoughts?

I don't know. Join the club, maybe?


Scraggly Heron
02-07-2017, 02:52 AM
This further confirms my suspicion that there is not really a pilot shortage.

Do you have a BA or BS? From what I've heard that's essentially a requirement at the legacies. I don't think it should be, but it's apparently something that they want.

Hacker15e
02-07-2017, 03:43 AM
This further confirms my suspicion that there is not really a pilot shortage.

There isn't a pilot shortage at any of the majors -- they are still filling classes with no problems, although they're not able to cherry-pick only the most top tier candidates now like they have been for the last 5-10 years or so.

Wildcard90W
02-07-2017, 03:53 AM
This further confirms my suspicion that there is not really a pilot shortage.

Do you have a BA or BS? From what I've heard that's essentially a requirement at the legacies. I don't think it should be, but it's apparently something that they want.

I do have a BS in Prof Aviation Flight Technology... All I heard in college back in '04-'06 is how PERFECTLY my/our timing was for this career. Then I continued to hear how PERFECT my timing was by all of the older mainline captains that would frequent my jumpseat during the 7 years I was stuck in the right seat. Something's not adding up.

I agree that there isn't a shortage at the majors whatsoever. The regionals are obviously feeling it now. Maybe in five more years, it will domino to the majors, but there will always be military guys for the majors to choose from, so then again maybe not.

BoilerUP
02-07-2017, 04:00 AM
You look very well qualified; I presume you check the 1000 TPIC box which isn't a requirement but certainly helps?

Any checkride failures?

Assuming you do have 1000 TPIC I'd recommend casting a wider net with Southwest and maybe Jetblue and Atlas. You may not want to stay long-term at those places (no offense intended to those employed by those airlines!) but it may provide you a means to your desired end and get you out of a "large small jet".

Also, legacy retirements are only going to accelerate in the next few years so while I understand the frustration, there is a LOT of hiring left to be done.

Wildcard90W
02-07-2017, 05:29 AM
You look very well qualified; I presume you check the 1000 TPIC box which isn't a requirement but certainly helps?

Any checkride failures?

Assuming you do have 1000 TPIC I'd recommend casting a wider net with Southwest and maybe Jetblue and Atlas. You may not want to stay long-term at those places (no offense intended to those employed by those airlines!) but it may provide you a means to your desired end and get you out of a "large small jet".

Also, legacy retirements are only going to accelerate in the next few years so while I understand the frustration, there is a LOT of hiring left to be done.

I have exactly 959 hours of TPIC. I would have checked the 1k box earlier, but I have been accrueing time at a snails pace ever since I upgraded two years ago because of training to switch aircraft, reserve, med leave, etc.... I plan on applying to SWA the day I get 1k.

As far as checkride failures go, I have one.... CFI bust, back in 2004.

This November will mark my 10 year anniversary at my Regional. I have made that my go/no go with regards to pursuing some of the LCCs and ACMI cargo carriers.

It seems like hiring at the Legacy carriers is accomplished by tossing 10,000 applications/resumes into the air, randomly grabbing them as they fall, and inviting the ones that they grab for interviews. Lol.

AboveMins
02-07-2017, 05:52 AM
Pretty much in the same boat as you. It's beyond frustrating to fly with FOs who have class dates at places like DL and UA, while we can't even seem to get a nibble on our lines. I guess it all boils down to how well you play the HR game nowadays. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for those low time folks who get on with 0 TPIC and just a few years of time in the right seat, and kudos to them for figuring out this silly game that the hiring folks have laid out for us. Oh well, c'est la vie. Personally, I set a drop dead date for myself. If I'm still at my regional when that day arrives, I'm putting plan B into action, and getting out of this dysfunctional industry all together

wrxpilot
02-07-2017, 06:13 AM
Same here... I've been at a regional for six years (upgraded two years ago), and flew charter and corporate turbine equipment before that. I have 7-8 internals at each of the legacies, and LORs from CPs and LCAs at my current company.

I have zero checkride failures, and an engineering degree with a 3.5 GPA from one of the top engineering schools in the US. I have a long time history of volunteering for two different organizations. I've had my applications reviewed by two different prep companies (Cage and Emerald). I've been to several job fairs, met with recruiters, etc. They all said everything looks great. I had a Delta friend send an email to Delta HR last summer to have my app reviewed. I never heard a thing (no "fix it", so I guess at least my app was correct?).

I have apps out with United, Delta, American, FedEx, UPS, JetBlue, and Alaska. I haven't heard a word from anyone. It's definitely super awesome when I fly with a 20 something FO with no TPIC and they tell me about their United/Delta class date.

I don't understand it either. Fortunately my current gig is ok and I don't commute. Otherwise I would be considering grad school and a return to engineering. My wife is going to be a Nurse Practitioner in a couple years, and I may go back to school at that point if I'm still not able to move on.

Autothrust
02-07-2017, 06:23 AM
My opinion is that they are pulling their 30-40 year olds from the military. The people retiring from the big military hiring wave in the mid 90's are in their early 40's. So they pull 20 somethings from the regionals. Having watched the hiring since 2013 and talking to enough people, I really believe that if you are late 30's to mid 40's and civilian then the Legacies are not interested, generally. I know there are exceptions. Best to get happy where you are or grab a LCC slot now, just in case that call never comes.

galaxy flyer
02-07-2017, 06:56 AM
I've watched from the sidelines of been in the hunt for every hiring boom since the late 60s, it has always been thus. I've seen guys with great resumes, never get a call, others that were unimpressive get hired and vice versa. It is not about resume quals, the legacies, in particular, have a profile they want to interview and won't be budged by a resume, to AUTOTHRUST's point. Six of us in my squadron were turned down by American back in the day, everyone hired at EAL, go figure.

GF

Packrat
02-07-2017, 07:02 AM
As far as checkride failures go, I have one.... CFI bust, back in 2004.

This November will mark my 10 year anniversary at my Regional. I have made that my go/no go with regards to pursuing some of the LCCs and ACMI cargo carriers..

Don't wait...do it now. Check your PMS.

wrxpilot
02-07-2017, 07:12 AM
I've watched from the sidelines of been in the hunt for every hiring boom since the late 60s, it has always been thus. I've seen guys with great resumes, never get a call, others that were unimpressive get hired and vice versa. It is not about resume quals, the legacies, in particular, have a profile they want to interview and won't be budged by a resume, to AUTOTHRUST's point. Six of us in my squadron were turned down by American back in the day, everyone hired at EAL, go figure.

GF

American is definitely a weird one. One of their recruiters at OBAP told me that I need to get hired at Frontier to "Learn how to fly big airplanes". I've been flying 70 seat RJs into Aspen and Eagle during the winter for three years, clearly I have no idea how to fly big airplanes...

Falcondrivr
02-07-2017, 07:37 AM
I'm not a regional pilot, and have no 121 time at all. But here's a funny related story:
I was talking to a recruiter for Allegiant at a job fair in December.
He said; " You should go to a regional and get some 121 time. Then we'd hire you in a second." (I have 8000 tt, 5000PIC, 4 type ratings, good 4 year degree.)
Me;"Well, I'm in the pool at Atlas. Would 747 time count?"
Him; "Ummm, yes! A year in a 74 and you'd be ready for sure!"

PotatoChip
02-07-2017, 08:44 AM
Join the club.
I update twice a week, have for the past two years.
I've been told I am "very qualified" by recruiters and prep companies. I've been told "you'll get a call by the end of the year". It's been two years.
It's frustrating.
All of my close friends are at legacies or SWA.
I have multiple internals at every airline.
I have the "primary sponsor" plus two additional at FDX.
I have a masters degree.
I have thousands of hours of heavy time and international time from two different carriers.
I have TONS of volunteer experience inside and outside of work.
I am under 40, and under 10,000 hours tt.

To date, I have received ZERO calls from any legacy, FedEx, UPS or JetBlue, not even a "fix it".
I have received a call from Sun Country and ATI.

Keep trying.

atpcliff
02-07-2017, 09:06 AM
This may help:
Go to Allegiant, Frontier, Atlas, ABX, Kalitta, JetBlue, Spirit, Vision, or some other carrier with a larger and/or Boeing/Airbus aircraft. I think that this DOES help pilots go to the "Big 5". I am at Atlas, and have seen a lot of guys go from here to the "Big 5". We had one guy here who had 3 class dates: AA, UAL, DAL. Another guy, from here, finished INDOC at UAL, and two days later resigned for class at DAL. We have had a LOT of guys to to FedEx, and now a lot going to UPS...apparently 120 or so of our pilots in the UPS pool, minus the pilots who already left in Jan.

I am not saying that this is THE way to go, just offering a suggestion. Some years ago, I had all the requirements for a large PAX carrier, but they said I needed glass Boeing or Airbus time to be seriously considered.

Of course, the longer you wait, the worse the Pilot Shortage gets, and the easier it gets to go to the Big 5.

PS-Maybe Amazon will make it the Big 6...

FTFF
02-07-2017, 09:37 AM
I know a whole bunch of guys in the same boat as you. I'm basically there myself; got all the stats and quals but only ever got called by UPS and I think that was just a lot of lucky timing (I did a lot more than 10 yrs at a regional too). Don't mistake the value of being young/moldable as being better at what we do. It's not. But for successfully integrating at a new company it apparently is. Nothing personal, just business. Dont give up, at least not yet.

Flatbiller
02-07-2017, 09:46 AM
There isn't a pilot shortage at any of the majors -- they are still filling classes with no problems, although they're not able to cherry-pick only the most top tier candidates now like they have been for the last 5-10 years or so.

According to one of the Atlas threads, Cliff stated that FedEx had 11 no-shows for a recent newhire class.

BeechPilot33
02-07-2017, 09:49 AM
Lot's of good suggestions. I would get that 1000 and click the box and in the meantime go to more job fairs and get the ball rolling at the places mentioned above. Lots of friends got another type and was off to the big 4 with less than a year at new company. You could also hedge your bet that getting 1000 will trigger more computer hits and a couple job fairs and more retirements will get you there without moving.

Flatbiller
02-07-2017, 09:49 AM
I do have a BS in Prof Aviation Flight Technology... All I heard in college back in '04-'06 is how PERFECTLY my/our timing was for this career. Then I continued to hear how PERFECT my timing was by all of the older mainline captains that would frequent my jumpseat during the 7 years I was stuck in the right seat. Something's not adding up.

I agree that there isn't a shortage at the majors whatsoever. The regionals are obviously feeling it now. Maybe in five more years, it will domino to the majors, but there will always be military guys for the majors to choose from, so then again maybe not.

I wouldn't hire you based on that fact alone.

They'll tell you anything to get your money.

Look on the bright side, with all the other pilots in your regional leaving for the majors, you'll a top dog in seniority a lot sooner than you originally thought.

PotatoChip
02-07-2017, 10:11 AM
I wouldn't hire you based on that fact alone.

They'll tell you anything to get your money.

Look on the bright side, with all the other pilots in your regional leaving for the majors, you'll a top dog in seniority a lot sooner than you originally thought.

Deleted. This troll isn't worth it.

LotsaTypes
02-07-2017, 10:45 AM
For those of you not "getting the call"... First thing is to "background check" yourself...HR departments will do this first thing... Big one is a credit check as it speaks volumes as to you're character. They will also check you out on the popular social media platforms...i.e. Did you post anything you regret on Facebook? They WILL see it. Many companies use outside agencies to do basic level checks before ever calling someone for an interview...once you are interviewed and moved forward in the process, more extensive background will be done. This is in addition to the PRIA stuff.

AboveMins
02-07-2017, 11:02 AM
For those of you not "getting the call"... First thing is to "background check" yourself...HR departments will do this first thing... Big one is a credit check as it speaks volumes as to you're character. They will also check you out on the popular social media platforms...i.e. Did you post anything you regret on Facebook? They WILL see it. Many companies use outside agencies to do basic level checks before ever calling someone for an interview...once you are interviewed and moved forward in the process, more extensive background will be done. This is in addition to the PRIA stuff.

I don't think they can do an actual credit check without your consent...

PotatoChip
02-07-2017, 11:24 AM
I don't think they can do an actual credit check without your consent...

Or without your social which should not be on your app. As far as social media, set everything to private and friends only. Consider changing your name, and mostly just don't post really stupid things.

BoilerUP
02-07-2017, 11:25 AM
A cursory glance on social media could be a disqualifier for many...

Flatbiller
02-07-2017, 01:07 PM
A cursory glance on social media could be a disqualifier for many...

Like the UPS guy who called in sick and then posted on Facebook that he was racing his car that weekend???

GogglesPisano
02-07-2017, 01:40 PM
How can anyone see your profile on FB without being a "friend?" (Unless, of course, you don't know how to manage your privacy settings.)

BoilerUP
02-07-2017, 01:40 PM
(Unless, of course, you don't know how to manage your privacy settings.)

You might be surprised how few people have their social media accounts 'locked down'.

FTFF
02-07-2017, 07:31 PM
Business insider had multiple articles about the trends companies were using to pre-screen potential candidates to include a review of social media activity. They were focusing on financial and tech companies but the broader implications suggested that it was (is) happening on a widespread basis. Best protocol: post neutral; support common core values.

Flatbiller
02-08-2017, 10:37 AM
Business insider had multiple articles about the trends companies were using to pre-screen potential candidates to include a review of social media activity. They were focusing on financial and tech companies but the broader implications suggested that it was (is) happening on a widespread basis. Best protocol: post neutral; support common core values.

Code for being PC.

Diesel8
02-09-2017, 08:38 AM
Code for being PC.

It's always good to hear from management.

That way you know what your dealing with.

Thanks for the insight, Flatbiller.

TheFREDguy
02-09-2017, 06:23 PM
I have exactly 959 hours of TPIC. I would have checked the 1k box earlier, but I have been accrueing time at a snails pace ever since I upgraded two years ago because of training to switch aircraft, reserve, med leave, etc.... I plan on applying to SWA the day I get 1k.

As far as checkride failures go, I have one.... CFI bust, back in 2004.

This November will mark my 10 year anniversary at my Regional. I have made that my go/no go with regards to pursuing some of the LCCs and ACMI cargo carriers.

It seems like hiring at the Legacy carriers is accomplished by tossing 10,000 applications/resumes into the air, randomly grabbing them as they fall, and inviting the ones that they grab for interviews. Lol.
You seem very well qualified!

The 2004 bust would not be an issue. I had a bust in a Lear 35 instrument check in 2004 and that was considered a mute point if your later checks were successful.

Make sure you have the 1000 PIC for sure and show on your app academic achievement/awards. The legacies are looking for the 'whole-person' concept. At one conference we were told that the majors/legacies know we can fly airplanes...it's leadership qualities they are looking for. They suggested anything from Scout leader to supervisor in extra-curricular activities and volunteerism are of great importance because this demonstrates drive and leadership ability. Delta, for example, looks at your schooling with special interest: GPA, masters, etc. are all part of the equation.

Lastly, have your app review by a prep company. I had Cage-Marshall look at mine and they pointed out the little details I needed to fix, like putting an N/A in all places that don't require an answer, or write out full month names instead of abbreviation, period after every sentence, etc.. It showed the HR folks attention to detail and the care I took to present them with a very consistent app.

Hope that helps! Good luck!

NMuir
02-09-2017, 06:37 PM
but there will always be military guys for the majors to choose fromNot quite so much anymore