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View Full Version : "The budge has to be justifiable"


Fookz92
02-09-2017, 09:36 PM
Gentlemen, in the vast knowledge of pilots on here, I can get feedback I know I can believe. Here is my predicament:
A gentleman and myself had a meeting the other day in his office. He called me in because he needed help with the aviation industry. This gentleman wants to purchase his first airplane. He asked me to help him narrow down the options. I myself am troubled because there are a lot of options. Obviously the best way to go about this is, you get the airplane that suits the mission. Not under kill or overkill.

Here is the mission: enough room for 5 to 6 people to go nonstop from Delaware to Chicago, or from Delaware to Florida. Will be doing two trips a month during spring and summer to Chicago minimum. Will be doing for trips a month during the fall and winter to Chicago at a minimum. When asked about a budget, the reply was: "no budget as long as it is justifiable by business."
This gentleman has been using a fellow friend of his and his piper malibu jetprop to get him around the Eastern region for roughly $600 per hour charge.
I have narrowed down my search between the following: Pilatus PC12, TBM700 or 850, Cessna Conquest, Piper Cheyenne, King air 90, Piper Meridian. My biggest concern is the maintenance cost and operating cost. One engine versus two engines etc.


If anyone can shed some more light to help me and the other gentleman out to complete the mission, that would be great. Thank you


60av8tor
02-10-2017, 03:25 AM
Gentlemen, in the vast knowledge of pilots on here, I can get feedback I know I can believe. Here is my predicament:
A gentleman and myself had a meeting the other day in his office. He called me in because he needed help with the aviation industry. This gentleman wants to purchase his first airplane. He asked me to help him narrow down the options. I myself am troubled because there are a lot of options. Obviously the best way to go about this is, you get the airplane that suits the mission. Not under kill or overkill.

Here is the mission: enough room for 5 to 6 people to go nonstop from Delaware to Chicago, or from Delaware to Florida. Will be doing two trips a month during spring and summer to Chicago minimum. Will be doing for trips a month during the fall and winter to Chicago at a minimum. When asked about a budget, the reply was: "no budget as long as it is justifiable by business."
This gentleman has been using a fellow friend of his and his piper malibu jetprop to get him around the Eastern region for roughly $600 per hour charge.
I have narrowed down my search between the following: Pilatus PC12, TBM700 or 850, Cessna Conquest, Piper Cheyenne, King air 90, Piper Meridian. My biggest concern is the maintenance cost and operating cost. One engine versus two engines etc.


If anyone can shed some more light to help me and the other gentleman out to complete the mission, that would be great. Thank you

Unless you're looking at the new M600 and the 6th pax is the pilot, the Meridian shouldn't be on your list.

BoilerUP
02-10-2017, 04:03 AM
Any potential owner that says "no budget" quite obviously hasn't owned an airplane before, and certainly hasn't gotten bills in the high 5/low 6 figure range for an inspection let alone unplanned maintenance event.

Also, Florida is a long state...big difference in an airplane that can reliability do ILG-JAX and an airplane that can do ILG-FLL with your desired passenger count...to say nothing about baggage for those passengers.

With respect to OP, this gentlemen would be financially well served enlisting the services of an experienced broker or pilot with bizav management experience. He needs to nail down the top end of his acquisition budget and appetite for monthly budget, as well as a desire for one or two pilots.

If six passengers are the mission, the airframes I would consider would be the Citation CJ2, Citation Ultra, B200, and PC12.

If "only" five passengers is acceptable, I would consider add the CJ1, Phenom 100, TBM 700C2/850, and C90B/GT to the consideration list.


jonnyjetprop
02-10-2017, 09:27 AM
With respect to OP, this gentlemen would be financially well served enlisting the services of an experienced broker or pilot with bizav management experience. He needs to nail down the top end of his acquisition budget and appetite for monthly budget, as well as a desire for one or two pilots.

Great post and I agree that it's important to get a professional into the discussion. It will serve you well, too. If the owner gets in over his head (and it sounds like he will), it will come down on you. If it works, you'll look good if you want to fly for the owner.

The only add is the comfort level with the one vs. two engine plane. The answer is part fact and part perception.

fasteddie800
02-10-2017, 09:47 AM
Couple of trips a month?

Wouldn't some sort of fractional operation be a better option?

galaxy flyer
02-10-2017, 07:58 PM
"No budget" is frequently followed by "why does it cost this much" or "I won't pay a "cab driver" that much". Aviation is expensive, nail down a realistic budget in hard numbers, FIRST.

GF

DarkSideMoon
02-10-2017, 08:31 PM
Couple of trips a month?

Wouldn't some sort of fractional operation be a better option?

Definitely sounds like PlaneSense would be a good option.

Md5drivr
02-12-2017, 02:01 PM
I fly a Meridian Part 91 corporate......don't expect that aircraft to fit those needs. I would be skeptical even of using the M600.

To get good legs on the Meridian with baggage I wouldn't put anymore than two PAX inside of it. Florida is a big question because of it's size.......and TEMPERATURES in the summer. Can easily add or subtract available pax......

I used to do this type of consulting for people who want buy an aircraft and add to their business. I wouldn't work with people if they didn't give me an estimate budget first. At the end of the day it all comes down to the dollars.........and they really have to understand that owning is a lot different then leasing or chartering. Especially if you are looking at getting into a twin-engine turboprop or jet.

Don't forget to factor in the cost of hangar, flight crew, recurrent training, insurance etc etc........the a/c acquisition is a big chunk (about 60%) of the cost of doing business, but another 40% can easily add up to the cost of what the owner was initially thinking of spending total.....

One size never fits all, definitely recommend looking at Plane Sense or even Wheels Up in the interim (6 mos or so) to see if a PC12 or KA fits their mission.

Chief Brody
02-14-2017, 02:19 PM
We had good success with King Airs. I find that most PC12 operators are very happy with their numbers though. If he is fine flying with one screw I think you spend the money up front for the PC12 and reap the rewards of low operating costs, dependability and comfort.

Md5drivr
02-14-2017, 04:52 PM
We had good success with King Airs. I find that most PC12 operators are very happy with their numbers though. If he is fine flying with one screw I think you spend the money up front for the PC12 and reap the rewards of low operating costs, dependability and comfort.

+1 sounds like they could potentially grow into a PC12 nicely as well. Sell them on the single-engine and you'll be well satisfied.


If you have some time look into the earlier model PC12/45 and drop the Finnoff conversion into it, MT prop etc etc. You'll match an /NG and save a million bucks.

DA2EASYB
02-20-2017, 01:44 PM
Did you ask him how fast he wants to get there? or how comfortable?

External serviceable Lav in the Budget? an APU?

Purchasing budget? Operating budget?

You have to answer these questions before you can give an answer.

The next guy he asks, and he will ask others, will make you look foolish.