Atlas / Southern
04-25-2020, 06:47 AM
#1151
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by RyeMex
Um... who exactly told you all this?
You do realize that there is an overwhelming possibility that we are about to enter into another global recession, if not depression, right? I’m not trying to be a downer, but this sounds like sh*t that would come from a recruiter, and it gets really tiring hearing the lies that they are constantly telling new guys to try to get them in the door.
No. We are not “probably” going to see “a lot of growth” in the next couple of years. And no, there aren’t going to be “Lots of quick upgrades”. The C-Suite stated that their were no plans for growth in the foreseeable future, and that was before the world economy went to hell in a hand basket.
I’m not trying to **** on your parade, but we all need to understand that the entire landscape for aviation has changed dramatically. The music has stopped. Just hope that you have a chair to sit in, and don’t expect that it’s going to be a captains chair in 12 months.
You do realize that there is an overwhelming possibility that we are about to enter into another global recession, if not depression, right? I’m not trying to be a downer, but this sounds like sh*t that would come from a recruiter, and it gets really tiring hearing the lies that they are constantly telling new guys to try to get them in the door.
No. We are not “probably” going to see “a lot of growth” in the next couple of years. And no, there aren’t going to be “Lots of quick upgrades”. The C-Suite stated that their were no plans for growth in the foreseeable future, and that was before the world economy went to hell in a hand basket.
I’m not trying to **** on your parade, but we all need to understand that the entire landscape for aviation has changed dramatically. The music has stopped. Just hope that you have a chair to sit in, and don’t expect that it’s going to be a captains chair in 12 months.
As for the growth, your right the the financial folks are never gonna publicly telegraph their next moves. What was said was all the cargo capacity removed from the industry collapse on the passenger side who also move significant amounts of cargo have their lift greatly reduced. Your right a severe recession/depression will hamper demand but there will still be freight to be moved. Their take was look, this downturn probably cost us pay, but we are also primed to grow to pick up the lift lost. They believe that as things play out over the next 6 mo to a year there will be an opportunity and ability to get pilots and grow on the 767,777, and 737 side.
There is a still a lot of low time FO's that will either not make it through upgrade, for a while not have the time, or choose to stay in the right seat of a larger airplane.
Your right, no one has an idea what is going on, it's gonna be a ride the next few years no matter what airline you work for.
04-25-2020, 07:22 AM
#1152
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,347
Originally Posted by alternatelaw320
Yes I agree the music has stopped to a degree. Info is from a couple check airman and a fleet manager, I was told that the 400's are still leaving in august and they are not going to Mesa now, maybe swift air. It was also told that the people hired last year on the southern side with previous 121 may or may not be able to upgrade within the plan they were told when hired here. Also from them, there expect there will be fences put up just like other mergers which will prevent southern pilots from bidding 747, 767 captain slots from atlas first officers and not displacing Captains, this also works vice versa to protect southern pilots.
As for the growth, your right the the financial folks are never gonna publicly telegraph their next moves. What was said was all the cargo capacity removed from the industry collapse on the passenger side who also move significant amounts of cargo have their lift greatly reduced. Your right a severe recession/depression will hamper demand but there will still be freight to be moved. Their take was look, this downturn probably cost us pay, but we are also primed to grow to pick up the lift lost. They believe that as things play out over the next 6 mo to a year there will be an opportunity and ability to get pilots and grow on the 767,777, and 737 side.
There is a still a lot of low time FO's that will either not make it through upgrade, for a while not have the time, or choose to stay in the right seat of a larger airplane.
Your right, no one has an idea what is going on, it's gonna be a ride the next few years no matter what airline you work for.
As for the growth, your right the the financial folks are never gonna publicly telegraph their next moves. What was said was all the cargo capacity removed from the industry collapse on the passenger side who also move significant amounts of cargo have their lift greatly reduced. Your right a severe recession/depression will hamper demand but there will still be freight to be moved. Their take was look, this downturn probably cost us pay, but we are also primed to grow to pick up the lift lost. They believe that as things play out over the next 6 mo to a year there will be an opportunity and ability to get pilots and grow on the 767,777, and 737 side.
There is a still a lot of low time FO's that will either not make it through upgrade, for a while not have the time, or choose to stay in the right seat of a larger airplane.
Your right, no one has an idea what is going on, it's gonna be a ride the next few years no matter what airline you work for.
Also, it'd suck to see you lose a job over internet message boards. Let us be the negative nancies. You seem eager to be here, and I look forward to meeting you on the line.
04-25-2020, 07:28 AM
#1153
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,347
Originally Posted by alternatelaw320
Yes I agree the music has stopped to a degree. Info is from a couple check airman and a fleet manager, I was told that the 400's are still leaving in august and they are not going to Mesa now, maybe swift air. It was also told that the people hired last year on the southern side with previous 121 may or may not be able to upgrade within the plan they were told when hired here. Also from them, there expect there will be fences put up just like other mergers which will prevent southern pilots from bidding 747, 767 captain slots from atlas first officers and not displacing Captains, this also works vice versa to protect southern pilots.
As for the growth, your right the the financial folks are never gonna publicly telegraph their next moves. What was said was all the cargo capacity removed from the industry collapse on the passenger side who also move significant amounts of cargo have their lift greatly reduced. Your right a severe recession/depression will hamper demand but there will still be freight to be moved. Their take was look, this downturn probably cost us pay, but we are also primed to grow to pick up the lift lost. They believe that as things play out over the next 6 mo to a year there will be an opportunity and ability to get pilots and grow on the 767,777, and 737 side.
There is a still a lot of low time FO's that will either not make it through upgrade, for a while not have the time, or choose to stay in the right seat of a larger airplane.
Your right, no one has an idea what is going on, it's gonna be a ride the next few years no matter what airline you work for.
As for the growth, your right the the financial folks are never gonna publicly telegraph their next moves. What was said was all the cargo capacity removed from the industry collapse on the passenger side who also move significant amounts of cargo have their lift greatly reduced. Your right a severe recession/depression will hamper demand but there will still be freight to be moved. Their take was look, this downturn probably cost us pay, but we are also primed to grow to pick up the lift lost. They believe that as things play out over the next 6 mo to a year there will be an opportunity and ability to get pilots and grow on the 767,777, and 737 side.
There is a still a lot of low time FO's that will either not make it through upgrade, for a while not have the time, or choose to stay in the right seat of a larger airplane.
Your right, no one has an idea what is going on, it's gonna be a ride the next few years no matter what airline you work for.
04-25-2020, 07:36 AM
#1154
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by alternatelaw320
Yes I agree the music has stopped to a degree. Info is from a couple check airman and a fleet manager, I was told that the 400's are still leaving in august and they are not going to Mesa now, maybe swift air. It was also told that the people hired last year on the southern side with previous 121 may or may not be able to upgrade within the plan they were told when hired here. Also from them, there expect there will be fences put up just like other mergers which will prevent southern pilots from bidding 747, 767 captain slots from atlas first officers and not displacing Captains, this also works vice versa to protect southern pilots.
As for the growth, your right the the financial folks are never gonna publicly telegraph their next moves. What was said was all the cargo capacity removed from the industry collapse on the passenger side who also move significant amounts of cargo have their lift greatly reduced. Your right a severe recession/depression will hamper demand but there will still be freight to be moved. Their take was look, this downturn probably cost us pay, but we are also primed to grow to pick up the lift lost. They believe that as things play out over the next 6 mo to a year there will be an opportunity and ability to get pilots and grow on the 767,777, and 737 side.
There is a still a lot of low time FO's that will either not make it through upgrade, for a while not have the time, or choose to stay in the right seat of a larger airplane.
Your right, no one has an idea what is going on, it's gonna be a ride the next few years no matter what airline you work for.
As for the growth, your right the the financial folks are never gonna publicly telegraph their next moves. What was said was all the cargo capacity removed from the industry collapse on the passenger side who also move significant amounts of cargo have their lift greatly reduced. Your right a severe recession/depression will hamper demand but there will still be freight to be moved. Their take was look, this downturn probably cost us pay, but we are also primed to grow to pick up the lift lost. They believe that as things play out over the next 6 mo to a year there will be an opportunity and ability to get pilots and grow on the 767,777, and 737 side.
There is a still a lot of low time FO's that will either not make it through upgrade, for a while not have the time, or choose to stay in the right seat of a larger airplane.
Your right, no one has an idea what is going on, it's gonna be a ride the next few years no matter what airline you work for.
Originally Posted by Elevation
I think it's good to come in with a positive attitude, but make sure you have realistic hopes. If things play out as you've been told, that's great. What I think others are trying to say is that you want to keep your expectations low so you don't wind up disappointed, punching the steering wheel in the parking lot or anything like that.
Also, it'd suck to see you lose a job over internet message boards. Let us be the negative nancies. You seem eager to be here, and I look forward to meeting you on the line.
Also, it'd suck to see you lose a job over internet message boards. Let us be the negative nancies. You seem eager to be here, and I look forward to meeting you on the line.
04-25-2020, 08:19 AM
#1155
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Retired
Posts: 651
Originally Posted by Elevation
Split lines on the 767 are pretty easy to get. We just got news that our new deadline for an integrated seniority list is now the end of March 2021. That means 2022 or later for a new contract.
The union can (and apparently has) appealed, but agreed to not file for a stay of the ruling.
04-25-2020, 09:20 AM
#1156
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 698
Originally Posted by alternatelaw320
Good morning all. From what I was told
-737 upgrades for people hired in 2019 are still running about a year
-merged seniority lists will involve "fences" so people hired which will protect upgrades for pilots more on the southern side of things, but will prevent southern pilots who are senior enough after the lists come out from taking upgrades from Atlas FO's. Probably be a good way not to **** off people who came here before the **** hit the fan for the quick upgrade.
-word is 400's are still going away in August, but not to Mesa. Swift Air maybe?
-I have heard the although the company has not publicly stated the following... with the other airlines significantly downsizing in the pax world ( who do carry freight), and lots of 737, 767's taken out of service they will become cheap to acquire. Combine this with Atlas/southern's ability to now fill classes, you are probably going to see a lot of growth in the next couple years, and lots of quick upgrades. Just my take.
-737 upgrades for people hired in 2019 are still running about a year
-merged seniority lists will involve "fences" so people hired which will protect upgrades for pilots more on the southern side of things, but will prevent southern pilots who are senior enough after the lists come out from taking upgrades from Atlas FO's. Probably be a good way not to **** off people who came here before the **** hit the fan for the quick upgrade.
-word is 400's are still going away in August, but not to Mesa. Swift Air maybe?
-I have heard the although the company has not publicly stated the following... with the other airlines significantly downsizing in the pax world ( who do carry freight), and lots of 737, 767's taken out of service they will become cheap to acquire. Combine this with Atlas/southern's ability to now fill classes, you are probably going to see a lot of growth in the next couple years, and lots of quick upgrades. Just my take.
yeah! Who said this. Recruiting? You do know that’s their job right ?
04-25-2020, 10:01 AM
#1157
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 611
Originally Posted by Elevation
Split lines on the 767 are pretty easy to get. We just got news that our new deadline for an integrated seniority list is now the end of March 2021. That means 2022 or later for a new contract.
04-25-2020, 10:51 AM
#1159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: No Hats No Jackets No PAX
Posts: 1,500
Originally Posted by Elevation
What I think others are trying to say is that you want to keep your expectations low so you don't wind up disappointed, punching the steering wheel in the parking lot or anything like that.
OK, quick question for fellow Greek Titans: FedEx seems to be capitalizing on the consumers using Belly Freight on Pax carriers. Their thread indicated their sales folks are corralling “7 year contracts” with these customers as the Pax carriers divest their International wide body fleets. This is not an argument if they will/won’t, it’s based on reliability and demand sustainment. Already realize we have some new charters (listening to Atlas News Radio) working the belly freight issue possibly, but are these long term contracts?
04-25-2020, 10:53 AM
#1160
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 186
Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville
The seniority list will not delay the contract in any way. May 15th, 2020 starts the nine month clock of negotiations. Then, 30 days of arbitrating all outstanding CBA issues followed by 60 days for the arbitrator to rule. The only delay would be if the arbitrator requests more time for a ruling, which is common.
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