zerozero

I'm not sure what to make of your contributions to APC, but let's say for now, color me skeptical.

First of all, ALPA doesn't need to elevate ACMI carriers above the Legacy carriers. But it would be well worth their time to bring them to parity, or at least close to parity. Guess what? ALPA could collect even more dues money like that. That said, ALPA's problem is actually an ideological one, not a financial one. They simply consider the outsource providers (ACMI and regional carriers) to be one step better than scabs.

Again, ask me how I know. Because that's what ALPA told Atlas back in the day.

Secondly, that link--it's quite dense--too much information for a casual Saturday afternoon. But I did have a look around. I'll say thanks, I wish I had seen it years ago. But it does seem to be somewhat outdated. Not sure if 2011 is the last time it was updated but it did refer to USAir East and West in the present tense. So I'm assuming it's not updated.

Specifically, there have been a couple court cases since then that would really affect some union strategy.

--2016 ABX strike over a major dispute/status quo violation by the company.

--2017 Injunction against Atlas Air Teamsters by the company.

Nevertheless, all of history is useful and should be studied by all union leadership. It's a shame we learn from history that we DON'T learn from history.

Lucifer

First you question my motives.... then in the next paragraph say exactly what I hinted at (you said it much more eloquently though). I would add that the goal is to raise everybody up, the old saying that a rising tide lifts all boats is true. So is you are only as strong as your weakest link. Similarly, a contract undefended is worthless. Finally, fail not to protect your brother, for next time it may be you the reaper comes for (that's my personal spin on the old "for whom the bell tolls...").

It has not been updated that I'm aware of. They did have some interesting theories, which based upon the Wisconsin teachers walkout/strike seem to indicate an illegal strike may not be so illegal if you're attending a demonstration exercising your first amendment rights.... even to the point of Doctors handing out doctors notes like candy on TV to anybody wanting one.... all subsequently upheld by the courts and nobody fired or terminated.
I think the operation orange goal was to get enough pilots committed to the idea, and all go to their state capitals, and DC, to protest instead of to work grinding the system to a halt. All companies, nationwide. Too bad it didn't catch on more.

The RLA and subsequent rulings, creation of various Boards and Mediation requirements have essentially killed strike threats and removed the single biggest stick organized labor held. That said, it will NEVER change playing by the rulebook. It will take action similar to the 1880's to force realistic change.

On the East/West fiasco, the one thing that was learned was that the only one to profit from it was the company. The pilots collectively gave up well over $1B in compensation while fighting over scraps for that many years.

There's always a deal to be made; but the Devil is always in the details....

John Carr

One of the guys at my now current employer (but not at the time) used to run around the airport, basically accosting regional pilots and shoving those operation orange cards in our faces. Also lecturing us about how we need to fight for better contracts, etc. Which, naturally, is a GOOD point.

Meawhile he was still working under a bankruptcy contract with much relaxed scope, bankruptcy pay rates, etc etc etc.

Seemed funny he saw fit to parade around when he shoood have been focusing his energy inward and worries about his own house.

Lucifer

There's always those that will tell you how to fight the fire in your garage while totally ignoring their own burning house.

zerozero

Well, I'm just playing along with your online persona.

Nevertheless, good discussion. I do appreciate the points. Maybe another thread dedicated to these same issues would be a good idea.

John Carr

And in the process a 1st class bag of feminine hygiene product.

Elevation

I fly at a different carrier, but I have some friends at K4 who made it through without problems. I thought K4 had AQP already.

Whalehunter

You mean Atlas? I don't think they have AQP.

CRJJ

​​​​​We don't!

Whalehunter

That's pretty sad