Brian3613

What is the Atlas/Southern quality of life and pay like? I put in an application last summer when I thought I was going to get furloughed. I got lucky and my company kept me. Today I got an email from Atlas, thanking me for applying in 2020, and asking me to submit another application for 2021.

Birdsmash

You might want to search the other Atlas/Southern thread. I’m pretty sure your answers are found in there.

ChopNDrop

There has been some switch-ups on APC it seems, but there are a lot of answers to that question already provided.

That being said, there are so many factors at this company that could be a make-or-break for you, so it’s not that no one will want to answer your question, but rather everyone is tired of trying to describe the differences in the operation for each of the four fleets to help you get the answer(s) you seek. So, as a pervious post said, I’d try to research the other threads to draw your own conclusion, because this is not like any legacy or regional operation.

Personally... I made the switch last year from a regional when I thought the mighty F might happen, and I wish I would’ve made the swap sooner. The arbitration results will be the determining factor on if I keep the resume up to date, or not.

BrazilBusDriver

Well, here's one fleet - bonus is it's the one you're likely to get unless you have a lot of time.


Speaking as a 737 FO, as far as pay you aren't likely to pull in much more than 65k - 75k a year for the first few years, not counting per diem. It can be substantially less if you get bit by the 50 hour guarantee bug (1st year guarantee) for multiple months - so far that's only happened to me once for mil leave, but I've heard that's not typical. Nice thing is they won't drop you below min guarantee for a weekend of mil leave, but I'm not sure how that works if you say, take half the month to keep your quals up (I'm not a mil pilot). Guarantee goes up to 62 hours after the first year. Training pay is only $1600/mo, plus per diem (which is more than the training pay right now with the $4/hr covid MOU), and that lasts for at least 3, but typically 4 months. Training is "big boy" style, so there isn't the handholding that exists at the regional operators nowadays. You're expected to do a lot of self-study. That being said, the instructors are helpful and want you to succeed - they'll point you in the right direction and are willing to spend time helping after hours if you need it.


Once you get through OE, you'll fight to consolidate due to the way the schedules are built, and what you bid won't really matter if it doesn't get you across the finish line, but the company will try to push you through. After that, you'll spend 15-17 days a month on the road, probably broken up into 2-3 stints on the road per month, and maybe get stuck doing gateway travel 1 or 2 times (if your trip doesn't start in CVG, you're alternate deadheaded to the start point on a scheduled day and it doesn't eat into days off). Gateway kinda sucks because they send you out a day early, but it's nice because you don't have to commute. It looks like we're shifting back to CVG as Amazon begins opening up their new facility, so I'd expect more gateway travel, meaning effectively less days off per month if you don't live in CVG.


We do 30 and 60 day lines (really one and two calendar months), and the 60 day lines tend to have a long stint on the road at the end of the first month and beginning of the second - up to 2.5 weeks isn't uncommon. This isn't a big deal if you're laying over in your home town, but otherwise it's a long time to be gone. That's something different, too - you'll get your 24/7 on the road. A typical 60 day schedule might start with a 6 day trip, then have a 17 day trip, then have another 10 day trip somewhere at the end. Whether you'll work your awarded schedule seems to depend a lot on whether or not you're paired up with a line check airman or scheduling has an FO they need to consolidate. Expect to be put on short call reserve somewhere in the system if you're dropped for OE/consolidation, although they occasionally give you layover at home and pay you for it (as opposed to long call reserve, which does not pay above monthly guarantee).


Speaking of pay, it's worth noting that you're paid primarily via trip rig - we get 4.85 hrs for every 24 hours away from base with partial amounts per partial days gone - this starts when you leave (or were scheduled to leave for gateway or alternate deadhead) CVG and stops when you arrive back at CVG (or were scheduled to be there). So a line with 15 days of work might pay, say 68 or 69 hours, and a 17 day line might pay 77-80. We have regular lines, hybrid lines with up to four days of short call reserve per month, and reserve lines (some mix of short and long call). Reserve in CVG tends to go somewhat senior (especially on the CA side) since they don't tend to mess with your schedule and you don't tend to get called. Short call pays rig and the callout is 90 minutes. Worth noting that there is no "awarded schedule pay protection", so changes to your schedule can affect your pay (often bringing you back to minimum monthly guarantee). That's all (including the rig) potentially subject to change with the new contract that comes out of arbitration.


As I alluded to, we don't really have a lot of the pay protections that most regional operators have, and there's not much overtime on the FO side due to all the recent hiring, so you're not likely to make any more than what you were awarded for the month. As many others have said, build your budget on MMG, and anything you make above it is gravy.


As far as upgrade goes, it had gone very junior on the 737, but with the merger with Atlas this is very likely to change - so don't count on a quick upgrade. If your goal isn't Atlas as a career, then this isn't the place/fleet to build time - it's worth noting that a month with a lot of flying would be about 40 hours on the 737 (maybe 50 during peak season), and some of the lines have as few as 25. You'll do a lot of sitting around, even before the occasional drops for OE and consolidation, and even have full day and two day stints off somewhere. This was probably a lot more exciting before COVID, and hopefully it will be again. I've heard the 76 is similar since most of their flying is also for Amazon, but I have no first hand knowledge.

Brian3613

I fly for a regional and have racked up quite a bit of seniority as an FO. I was supposed to upgrade this past December, but because of Covid, all upgrades were put on hold indefinitely. Because of my seniority, I can be almost guaranteed the schedule I want, and have the opportunity to pick up as many extra trips I want, to make extra money. I typically fly about 120 hours a month at $50/hr. So I’m not really hurting for money, but I would like to make more.
I guess I’m just getting bored and it’s clouding my judgement. I’ve always wanted to fly heavy’s.

BrazilBusDriver

The smart advice is to get PIC time in jets before you move, assuming you have the option. I would say skip that step if and only if it’s clear the current job is going nowhere or Atlas is your one true career airline. You would likely have the option of flying heavies at Atlas eventually, but given the lack of PIC they’d probably send you to the 73 if you applied for it. Also, you’ll never make UPS/FedEx money (or AA, DL, or UA for that matter). As others have pointed out, we aren’t currently top of the ACMI heap in terms of pay, and my understanding is we’re far and away the biggest. What’s important to you? How bad do you dislike your current situation?

I was forced to move. I’ve been incredibly happy with it, despite some of the places where there could be improvement all things considered, but whether or not it’s the destination airline probably depends on how arb goes, how bad the wife hates me being gone for 2+ weeks with no local layovers (so far she doesn’t), and what I decide to do with the military reserves for the next 2-10 years (not currently a priority). Crystal ball is still hazy...

CRJJ

I was forced to move too, and Southern was the only company giving me the opportunity so I took it (73), fresh ATP, no TPIC.

So the advice given up here is solid as a rock. If waiting a little bit more, now that things are starting to move, means getting TPIC...get it. A year ago it wouldn't have been a problem but as as mentioned before, 73 upgrade time is gonna go up considerably.

I'll be able to log good experience, 73 now and a heavy later on, but no TPIC for me in the near future haha.

But it all depends on your goals.

C17B74

Have flown with quite a few former regional Capt/FOs this past year on the 74. Mostly from Trans/Compass whose timing is everything before the long lines began. Heavy flying is not for everyone but for those who enjoy something different, the 74 is not cookie cutter compared to the others. Change is rampant, aggravating/inspiring/disheartening/promising, etc. it all depends on how you approach it. Granted, not all “Heavies” are created equal as our 74s go everywhere despite the schedule being in flux at times. 777 more defined schedules and less destinations as does the 76 which has limited overseas by comparison to the Xtra-Large Twin or Fantastic 4 Banger. They all do get out of the country but the 76 is fairly more domesticated which is a highlight for many. More 7 on 7 off type deals vs the rest of the packs running the 17 day or 3 smaller footprints in a 60 day bid line. Let’s not forget, do you prefer long legs or short, 2 pilots only or 3,4 working a third or half the time and how is your living space? Sleeping on the Floor, in a Seat, Bunks or even actual rooms on the 74. I myself sleep mostly in the big chairs if they are good ones and go to the room on 12 hour plus legs usually. Time zones may be problematic as well. Overall, it’s hard to tell from the outside looking in until you step foot on any of the equipment to see what meets your lifestyle needs.

*I do not care for anything that remotely smells of a “sort” operation. That is just me. I will enjoy this until it meanders down that path someday. Let CVG be that place, I bid around it. I know, truly spoiled.

*Travel, especially pre-RONA it’s a no brainer and that’s one of the top reasons I stay put. With travel comes food and I fly to eat. Wife says what time off she wants away from me (maybe its her boyfriends schedule), then I pick the line according to what my dining preferences are...

CRJJ

"Boyfriend's schedule" lol

I've been wanting to fly a 747 for 20 years now, hopefully soon.

Swakid8

I will say I was a regional guy who wasn’t forced to move. I was at a regional where I was a junior captain living in my regional’s junior base. COVID-19 hit with my base being closed, downgraded back to FO to the bottom 3rd of the seniority list after furloughs. I was commuting to SCR as a regional FO. My QOL took bit of a hit to worth it after the bit financial hit for my family.

Needless to say, I am on the 74 now. I don’t have to stress about commuting every few days just to sit in my crash pad. I’ve been off for the last 2 weeks which is nice, I can be home and just be home. So my QOL has improved tremendously. Despite the lag in compensation vs Kalitta and other ACMIs. I am actually close to breaking even with my regional CA pay and coming ahead of being a Regional FO sitting SCR.

I guess my question would be, are you a commuter or do you live in base? Would you prefer to be on the road longer and as a trade off be home longer? Or are you a guy that wants short stints on the road and then at home? My advice is to apply and interview. Let them tell you no. Depending on tour hours, you might be able to get picked up on the wide-body even without PIC time.