Atlas Hunger Games - 2022
01-15-2022, 06:56 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by Swakid8
Elevation, I understand that. I went through a upgrade at my previous carrier. I agree with every point you have made so far. See the OP gripe about fail rates, but in my opinion, the training was actually easier than it was at my previous company to my surprise.
At the same time, there is a lot of leeway with how to do things which is a good thing and but it’s also a frustrating thing. The fail rates isn’t gripe. I gripe was lack of standardization amongst instructors with them teaching their techniques as gossip this contradicted the current FCOM rev procedures. (this was a huge gripe for me and my sim partner).
Also you are correct, there was a lot left out during the ground portion of Indoc which would have been covered if this was one first airline. But if this was your second airline, it’s no big deal because you knew exactly where to go for information that one was looking for in the FOM.
As the ride itself, it is straight forward, if you know you have training coming up, the onus is on the crew member to get in the seat, do some hand flying, do some PMing, be up on the currency FCOM Rev procedures not the previous one, study the material.
At the same time, there is a lot of leeway with how to do things which is a good thing and but it’s also a frustrating thing. The fail rates isn’t gripe. I gripe was lack of standardization amongst instructors with them teaching their techniques as gossip this contradicted the current FCOM rev procedures. (this was a huge gripe for me and my sim partner).
Also you are correct, there was a lot left out during the ground portion of Indoc which would have been covered if this was one first airline. But if this was your second airline, it’s no big deal because you knew exactly where to go for information that one was looking for in the FOM.
As the ride itself, it is straight forward, if you know you have training coming up, the onus is on the crew member to get in the seat, do some hand flying, do some PMing, be up on the currency FCOM Rev procedures not the previous one, study the material.
01-15-2022, 08:13 AM
#12
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Originally Posted by Elevation
We fail to teach a lot of stuff that should be introduced in the classroom.
The more letters they place in files because pilots refuse to go through Professional Standards the higher the retention and all without adding a single penny to the pay rates.
Hunger games has more to do with Pilots taking out pilots than flying the jet.
Last edited by itsjustajob; 01-15-2022 at 08:29 AM.
01-15-2022, 08:46 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by itsjustajob
Like how to get along? How not to get the whole crew drug through an Article 19 because somebody’s feelings got hurt?
The more letters they place in files because pilots refuse to go through Professional Standards the higher the retention and all without adding a single penny to the pay rates.
Hunger games has more to do with Pilots taking out pilots than flying the jet.
The more letters they place in files because pilots refuse to go through Professional Standards the higher the retention and all without adding a single penny to the pay rates.
Hunger games has more to do with Pilots taking out pilots than flying the jet.
Ideally pro stands would be able to bring people into the sim for retraining without anything ever hitting their file. We don't have that, unfortunately. The smaller footprint of professional standards here makes them less likely to be used, even in stuff they want to capture, like interpersonal conflict.
If pro standards can expand their capabilities, we'd be able to capture these messes before they're documented. Perhaps this is on the horizon?
If people are disagreeing to a point that it's making it to a chief pilot can we say that's NOT affecting the flight of the jet? A sim observation can reveal a lot and put the crew into a discrete correction.
Last edited by Elevation; 01-15-2022 at 08:56 AM.
01-15-2022, 08:53 AM
#14
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Originally Posted by Elevation
I'm all about using pro standards... , like interpersonal conflict.
Daily multiple Article 19’s are being filed due to these new pilots coming in running to the company instead of going through Professional Standards.
This uptick started last year and has grown.
01-15-2022, 09:35 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by TiredSoul
Well HR has managed to hire a couple of real gems with no social skills.
So shall we bend over backwards to get them Union protection or shall we just let Darwinism run it’s course ?
So shall we bend over backwards to get them Union protection or shall we just let Darwinism run it’s course ?
The problem is when one of these nuggets get sideways with a crew it drags everyone into a hearing with possible punitive action.
The Union has been making mention of using Professional Standards but it seems that message isn't being heard, or the offending pilot outright refuses to discuss the matter in a controlled setting with the Union.
In this past week 6-8 additional hearings all over pilots running to HR instead of Professional Standards.
UPS/FedEx are going to be getting worried because the toxic culture as a result of these newish/new hire pilots will start to effect their hiring pool as more and more pilots get a letter in placed in their files.
01-15-2022, 09:38 AM
#17
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Wow! It looks like the Atlas training program has not improved.
The DOD requires a survey for each carrier flying DOD freight and personnel. The survey is conducted every two years, Here are a couple of questions from that survey.
1. What is the new hire failure rate? _____ -
-2. What is the new hire failure process? a. Is there an established screening process for new hires? -- Interview: Ops Management / HR -- Simulator check -- Testing: Technical / psychological -- Alcohol / Drug screening -- Background checks: Aviation / criminal -- Other
3. Number of pilots hired in past 12-months? ________ -- Is there an identifiable reason? --- Retirements? --- Company expansion? --- Pilots moving to other airlines?
4. Projected number of new-hires over next 12-months
Given the past comments as evidence, if the company honestly answered these questions, ( particularly number 3) do you think Atlas could renew their DOD contract? With all of my friends at Atlas I certainly hope so.
One other thing, going AQP is not and easy not inexpensive process.
The DOD requires a survey for each carrier flying DOD freight and personnel. The survey is conducted every two years, Here are a couple of questions from that survey.
1. What is the new hire failure rate? _____ -
-2. What is the new hire failure process? a. Is there an established screening process for new hires? -- Interview: Ops Management / HR -- Simulator check -- Testing: Technical / psychological -- Alcohol / Drug screening -- Background checks: Aviation / criminal -- Other
3. Number of pilots hired in past 12-months? ________ -- Is there an identifiable reason? --- Retirements? --- Company expansion? --- Pilots moving to other airlines?
4. Projected number of new-hires over next 12-months
Given the past comments as evidence, if the company honestly answered these questions, ( particularly number 3) do you think Atlas could renew their DOD contract? With all of my friends at Atlas I certainly hope so.
One other thing, going AQP is not and easy not inexpensive process.
01-15-2022, 09:44 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by 3pointlanding
Wow! It looks like the Atlas training program has not improved.
The common factor is the attitude of pilots, Ignoring the Union, and Ignoring the guidance seasoned pilots try to convey.
01-15-2022, 10:02 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by itsjustajob
The quality of the Pilots has decreased, and the entitled attitude has only gotten worse.
The common factor is the attitude of pilots, Ignoring the Union, and Ignoring the guidance seasoned pilots try to convey.
The common factor is the attitude of pilots, Ignoring the Union, and Ignoring the guidance seasoned pilots try to convey.
Ignoring the Union - we’re not employed by the Union, it’s not the Teamsters on my paycheck.
You mean the same Union that vilified new hires in ‘17/‘18? The No lanyard No landing Union? The same Union that just got new-hires a pay raise out of their own pocket? The same Union that dragged out negotiations for 5 years then got us an arbitrated CBA with the same poorly worded articles as the last one?
So tell me about Pro Standards. Tell me how they can correct a gem without the ability to levy any punitive actions ? How they can make things go away and let Capt Crusty off the hook for another year?
Ignoring the guidance by seasoned pilots - the guidance in what exactly? Not using V/S?
People don’t fail a single event, they fail multiple events before they are made to walk the plank. At least three according to the guidance. Three with different examiners and different seat support.
I nearly failed an oral recently and got my @ss handed to me, suffice to say that’s not going to happen again.
Learning has taken place - a change in behavior due to experience.
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