Birdsmash

What 8 hour limit under 121 with augmented crews are you referring?

FourFans130

Concur. This is how I've done it on the USAF heavy side, and how I plan to do it in the airlines. Total time reflects your complete time as a required crew member operating the plane. SIC and PIC are specific to those roles, and for those who fly augmented crews, should reflect a lower time than your total time. If you are not in the seat, do not log SIC. Conversely, it's possible to log PIC if you are the Captain even if you're not in the seat (charged with responsibility for the operation of the flight...), but that's another discussion.

This "other" time is worthless aside from bumping up your total time, but you should A: log it if you are on an augmented crew and B: be able to explain it. If you operated augmented and your logbook doesn't show the gap in time (i.e. PIC+SIC does not equal Total Time), you might get some questions about it, discovering if you really know how to log times.

I've known several pilots that stopped logging 'other' time after they started with the majors, because it really is worthless after a point (only PIC and SIC really count), but until then, I think it's wise to track it. If nothing else, it shows future employers that you know your stuff and that you have diligence in the details.

Smash312

Poetic to the core. I like.

propellere

thanks for the input. May the 4 fans of freedom continue on. Btw, I’m pretty sure those engines are upside down. 🙃

MoarAlpha

8 hours a$$-in-seat time.

Am I missing something?

akfrtdwg 57

-Not Bothering

BrazilBusDriver

So this is completely academic to me since I'm going to be flying on the non-augmented side of the house, at least for a bit...but there's little to do when you're self-quarantining in a Miami Hotel anyway, so:

Seems like there's no set policy on relief/IRO time logging at the FAA, and until a couple years ago at least a few operators were counting it for consolidation purposes. Based on that, and the fact that as others such as fourfan have said it's a common practice in the US military, I'd say do whatever you can explain. Just don't log it for OE.

Source: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...N_8900.415.pdf
Edit: Here's the referenced legal interpretation if you're really bored - I think it's telling that they choose not to address anything other than OE: https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf

Birdsmash

Yes. You are missing the fact that there is not a CFR under 121 that limits a pilot to 8 hours in the seat with 3 or more pilots. This is a common misconception. Back in the day 2 pilots and a flight engineer would spend 12 hours in the seat. Nothing has changed except that the voice activated thermostat (FE) has been replaced with a voice activated coffee maker (IRO/RP). 121.483 (Flag) and 121.521 (Supplemental) have not changed in decades. Of course the CFRs with 4 pilots are even more liberal.

Neosporin

I have also flown both, with the temperature regular and the coffee maker.

it is 8 hours, Flight deck duty are the key words. we can all read it, read 121.507 and .509.

the FE part is 12 hours because the "airman" (FE) is on the flight deck as required by the configuration, granted he/she slept most of the time and I had to wake him to crossfeed or turn on fuel heat, etc.

there are CFR that spell it out.

boeingdvr

Ya”ll need better hobbies. Don’t worry. After a month of flying in circles. You will quickly forget about the FAR’s afterall- we are essential, exempt, and have waivers for waivers. We go- no matter what. This isn’t your dad’s airline, it’s your great grandad’s. Buckle up.