Amazon obstructing Atlas & ATSG pilots
 

The real reason Atlas and ABX pilots do not have a new CBA and will likely not have a new CBA is because of the influence that Amazon now has on their parent companies, AAWW and ATSG.

businessinsider.com: "And some analysts like Bernstein's David Vernon doubt that customers would want to use Amazon Air. He wrote that airport to airport, Amazon Air is cheaper than UPS or FedEx because of Amazon Air pilots' lower salaries."

"'Amazon is doing everything possible to keep their shipping expense low because it's ballooning,' Marc Wulfraat, the president and founder of supply-chain consultancy MWPVL International, told Business Insider."

All of the rumors of new airplanes or a new CBA are simply attempts by AAWW and ATSG management to keep their pilots flying their airplanes at substandard pay for as long as they possibly can which will likely be many years into the future. With Amazon likely the driving force behind this union busting effort it's logical to conclude that any lost business due to a lack of pilots is irrelevant as long as Amazon planes keep flying.

Ding ding ding......winner winner chicken dinner. Collusion at its finest example.
There is a reason 20 year captains are jumping ship : NO FUTURE WITH AMAZON!

So, everyone just stop flying for them. Force their hand. Make them hand over a new CBA before resuming work. Strength in numbers.

The overall goal of any business is to keep overhead low while maximizing profits. The pilot group, also know by CEO’s and investors as “cost units”, have an always will be a major expense that companies can and will keep underpaid just so they can show some sort of year-over-year profit to their investors.

It’s DHL too..

Exactly!! I blame DHL more so than Amazon at this point.

Said no K4 pilot...

Yes, exactly. K4 flies DHL planes and was able to get a new CBA. But they don't fly Amazon planes.

Atlas, Southern, ABX, and ATI fly Amazon planes and only ATI has a new CBA but it was obtained more than a year after K4 and others got theirs and it's substandard to all of those.

Management doesn't even negotiate with Atlas, Southern, or ABX pilots and the reason for that has become evident: AMAZON. If Amazon is pulling the strings and is determined to keep pilot pay substandard then AAWW and ATSG could literally lose half of their pilots and management would not care as long as Amazon planes keep flying.

Southern does not fly Amazon planes.

That's correct but they're pretty much lumped together with Atlas now.

If this is all true, I hope ATI pilots aren't still wanting Bezos for a boss. I guess through proxy, he kind of is, or at least pulling strings and dangling carrots in front of ATSG management.
Wouldn't that be ironic?

And Southern got a big improvement in pay, which now means that it can't be used to whipsaw it's previous "lower cost" pilots vs the rest of the DHL/Amazon carriers...kind of goes against the whole point of this thread...

Easy to say....last time the flying was "stopped" one company didn't.... they crossed the line, got more airplanes and a new contract. It doesn't work if some are willing to accept a substandard contract for more airplanes.

This sounds eerily reminiscent of Comair vs the rest of the Delta connection carriers. Mesa is gonna pop up somewhere and fly 777’s for $13 an hour...

Your point doesn't change the fact that Southern and Atlas pilots are still getting substandard pay and as long as it stays that way Amazon, I'm sure, is happy.

I understand completely. In theory it is a great idea. In practice, well......

I agree, I don't think Amazon really cares how much the pilots at Atlas or any of the other carriers are making. It's seems like it's basically the same model as the regionals. Atlas signs a contract for a certain amount of years to fly a certain amount of planes for a certain price. You get too expensive, whether that be because of pilot costs or not, it's not Amazon's problem. It's up to Atlas or ATI or whoever else is flying for Amazon to figure out how to make a profit. As long as the planes keep moving per the agreed upon prices Amazon is happy.

I fly with guys every day that practically wack the pork sword to a pic of bezos and amazon planes.

Do most of them have PrimeAir bag tags? That would be my guess.

That's exactly what would happen in a pay for departure system. While I'm not sure if Amazon is currently operating that way, a whole lot of regionals do.

I am not an expert by any means but just by googling it seems the planes are leased from Titan and then operated under a cmi deal with Atlas. Titan is owned by Atlas. So basically it’s a regional model. Amazon sets the schedules and pays for the fuel, Atlas is in charge of everything else. I also think Amazon also owns a bit of Atlas stock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

More than one company has been spanked by the FAA when they find out who’s really in charge of flight operations. Very reminiscent of 1988 in a town called Louisville.

Sooner or later Bezos will pay the piper for subverting and undermining his contracting workforce with menial wages and horrible benefits.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sadly, that ship has sailed. The major airlines have woven a legal tapestry that lets them control every aspect of their regional partners while avoiding any liability and any responsibility for operational control.

LOL.. For someone was around when all that was going on, that is the best post ever.. Ha!

Amazon was issued warrants for AAWW stock. I haven't seen anything saying that Amazon has exercised those warrants.

If you think the ATI contract is the worst contract out there for flying - think again. There are a plenty of much worse flying jobs. Not just poor wages, but terrible safety and terrible QOL.

I don't have tons of hope that FAA will single carrier all the airlines flying under Amazon.

I met a Atlas guy who at the time was a 6 year CA. So maybe a year or so ago. He was convinced very hard that Amazon was going to buy Atlas. I wished him luck but, he is smoking something good. He said that was why he wasn’t applying anywhere at the time. I kind of feel like that part was a little lie. But good luck with that view.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Didn’t you know? Amazon is going to buy ALL the ACMI carriers and they will be given UPS type contracts.

(sarcasm in case you didn’t get it haha)

This may be inflammatory but I'm not sure I would put much weight into K4 getting a contract. If we wanted a K4 contract I think management would chomp at the bit to give us one. I think that would be akin to some big pay increases with very few changes to work rules. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing K4 or any pilot there who is enjoying their new CBA. We are all jealous of the money you're making and we know it's light years ahead of your old one. My point is that our inability to get a contract compared to K4 is very unlikely because K4 is not related to Amazon and we are. It's more likely that we are asking for a lot more (which management is far less inclined to give) and aren't anywhere near self help. K4 also went through yeaaaaaaars of pain and frustration (12?) to get where they were and were under the threat of self help when they finally signed a CBA

Due to or current CBA, K4 enjoys getting a lot of sub contracted flying from us. You can see the completed K4 trip folders spilling over in ANC OPS just today.

So if K4 with their new contract are getting flying from us, I fully expect better for us in the future from our ExCo. If not, we should remove them in the upcoming election for not upholding their industry leading CBA promises carrot in our upcoming CBA. That's if we get to vote on leadership this time without them expanding the ExCo seats available after the fact this time again.

Who am I kidding, promises from BK happening. Really? He has already gotten his union parachute payout arranged as notified to membership.

Your attitude does far more harm for your cause than management ever could. Well done.

Very true. This guy is an absolute moron. Embarrassed he is an Atlas pilot. SMH

Whoops thought you guys were talking about me. Sorry.

Yeah, I don't think our union is solely to blame. I put far more blame on the company than the Exco.

Two more fine examples of our very junior (FNG's) and highly indoctrinated members by our current leadership that DKS except what they were told by them or just selected pieces of our real history and past events now repeating again...

It's amazing what a pizza party can buy at those new members meetings and the union breakfast meetings at the bases.

Here is a tip for you FNG's hired after the RU admin, believe about 50% of what our current leadership says and about 1.9% of what the company says (like our profit sharing). Somewhere in between lies some truth.

Not blaming you, they just got to you first with their stories and you don't know any better. Especially after they closed down the official union forums to move it to facebook's gc_comms which IS NOT an official source for the union and 1224 denies all association with it (per 1224 legal council) despite it regularly is said to be the go to place by our leadership during crew calls. They can say just about anything they want there and moderate/restrict all communications to what they want said and have done so regularly. They couldn't do that with the union web forums although a number of BK sycophant moderators actually got caught deleting submissions that were within the TOS as determined by 1224 IT.

Side note, Atlas does view gc_comms regularly or at least they do from ip addresses ranged 208.90.72.0/24 . I've logged six different ip's they have viewed from their offices. Keep that in mind when you post over there.

Uhhh, I'm pretty sure that HvypurplePylot isn't an Atlas new hire. Your rants, are now trending from paranoid and insulting all the way to sad and pathetic.

And no matter how many times you stomp your foot and whine about the message boards, I'm pretty sure nobody except you cares. And if, by some silly chance, someone really wants to hear more about your ancient conspiracy theories, all they have to do is to look around the hub or the training center for the guy mumbling to himself with the tin foil hat.

Yea, sorry chief not my rodeo. Just an outside observer but yeah I'm sure sowing seeds of descent will help your cause. Lemme guess, going to retire either way so your just angry at everything. Have fun boss.

Oh well, tried posting a reply with a little too much truth. Immediately met with the paid sector of the union presence crying to the mods yet again.

There is no record of who gets what under the current donated LMED as it stands at Atlas 1224, nor accountability. Yet another slush fund, all while they try to expunge SELECT guys on our seniority list on LMED and MIL leave from our list.