New contract in the works?
07-16-2022, 08:52 AM
#161
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Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,343
Originally Posted by zerozero
I don't think you understand what "cheaper" and "outsourced" mean.
Whether or not the company is abusing the E3 visa process is a separate matter.
But the Aussies are being hired IN HOUSE under the same contract stipulations as every other Atlas crew member. They are NOT working at lower rates or reporting to a different organization. The latter case would be the definition of cheaper and outsourced.
The sudden panic of furloughs at Atlas is almost laughable. We have been deliberately under staffed since 2016. And as I've pointed out in other threads, the only time Atlas has furloughed historically, has been during contract negotiations as an intimidation tactic.
Some of us have actually been here long enough to see what it's like to train Capt upgrades for crew members not listed on the master seniority list; we've sat next to foreign crews who were hired by another organization and did actually perform the same job for less money and benefits.
This is not the same thing. Everyone would be well advised to tamp down their jingoistic fear mongering and concentrate on keeping the company managers and executives honest.
Whether or not the company is abusing the E3 visa process is a separate matter.
But the Aussies are being hired IN HOUSE under the same contract stipulations as every other Atlas crew member. They are NOT working at lower rates or reporting to a different organization. The latter case would be the definition of cheaper and outsourced.
The sudden panic of furloughs at Atlas is almost laughable. We have been deliberately under staffed since 2016. And as I've pointed out in other threads, the only time Atlas has furloughed historically, has been during contract negotiations as an intimidation tactic.
Some of us have actually been here long enough to see what it's like to train Capt upgrades for crew members not listed on the master seniority list; we've sat next to foreign crews who were hired by another organization and did actually perform the same job for less money and benefits.
This is not the same thing. Everyone would be well advised to tamp down their jingoistic fear mongering and concentrate on keeping the company managers and executives honest.
100% agree that management and politics are the big threat here.
Last edited by Elevation; 07-16-2022 at 09:18 AM.
07-16-2022, 01:05 PM
#162
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Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 692
I'm responding to both notthesame and Elevation at the same time.
I'd suggest that every American who is qualified and interested in working for Atlas has a greater chance than an Aussie on a visa of securing a job offer.
Why?
Because it's (the visa and going halfway across the globe to recruit) costing Atlas money and they don't like that. They'd prefer to hire the American without the extra "tax" of the visa.
Don't worry, this won't last forever. The Stansted rip off didn't last forever either.
I'd suggest that every American who is qualified and interested in working for Atlas has a greater chance than an Aussie on a visa of securing a job offer.
Why?
Because it's (the visa and going halfway across the globe to recruit) costing Atlas money and they don't like that. They'd prefer to hire the American without the extra "tax" of the visa.
Don't worry, this won't last forever. The Stansted rip off didn't last forever either.
07-16-2022, 02:48 PM
#163
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Joined APC: Mar 2013
Posts: 393
Originally Posted by zerozero
I'd suggest that every American who is qualified and interested in working for Atlas has a greater chance than an Aussie on a visa of securing a job offer.
Why?
Because it's (the visa and going halfway across the globe to recruit) costing Atlas money and they don't like that. They'd prefer to hire the American without the extra "tax" of the visa.
Why?
Because it's (the visa and going halfway across the globe to recruit) costing Atlas money and they don't like that. They'd prefer to hire the American without the extra "tax" of the visa.
Those pilots are also probably less likely to do something that the employer might look unfavorably on, such as calling fatigue, working union positions, honoring a picket line, etc.
07-16-2022, 03:11 PM
#164
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Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by zerozero
I'm responding to both notthesame and Elevation at the same time.
I'd suggest that every American who is qualified and interested in working for Atlas has a greater chance than an Aussie on a visa of securing a job offer.
I'd suggest that every American who is qualified and interested in working for Atlas has a greater chance than an Aussie on a visa of securing a job offer.
They are hiring Aussies on visa's because they can't get American's to even apply. And those who do apply and are hired, leave within a year to a legacy or purple/brown. Foreign hires negate the need to increase compensation to get domestic new hires through the door, and foreign new hires can't leave or their visa goes away.
07-16-2022, 06:08 PM
#165
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 579
Originally Posted by notthesame
This is TOTALLY erroneous.
They are hiring Aussies on visa's because they can't get American's to even apply. And those who do apply and are hired, leave within a year to a legacy or purple/brown. Foreign hires negate the need to increase compensation to get domestic new hires through the door, and foreign new hires can't leave or their visa goes away.
They are hiring Aussies on visa's because they can't get American's to even apply. And those who do apply and are hired, leave within a year to a legacy or purple/brown. Foreign hires negate the need to increase compensation to get domestic new hires through the door, and foreign new hires can't leave or their visa goes away.
Not accurate. There are Americans still getting the TBNT letter after the interview.
07-16-2022, 06:48 PM
#166
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Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: B747 FO
Posts: 610
Originally Posted by Natca
Not accurate. There are Americans still getting the TBNT letter after the interview.
Remember that these guys/gals are coming in with huge experience, the guys in my class that are on an E-3 have up towards 25000 hours, being captains on anything from A320-380 or B737-787.
Most of the other guys were either regional guys or 135 guys flying CRJs/ERJs or smaller citations....
07-16-2022, 07:39 PM
#167
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 579
Originally Posted by JohnnyBekkestad
They didn't get the TBNT because the company wanted to hire an E-3 guy instead. They were probably not qualified...
Remember that these guys/gals are coming in with huge experience, the guys in my class that are on an E-3 have up towards 25000 hours, being captains on anything from A320-380 or B737-787.
Most of the other guys were either regional guys or 135 guys flying CRJs/ERJs or smaller citations....
Remember that these guys/gals are coming in with huge experience, the guys in my class that are on an E-3 have up towards 25000 hours, being captains on anything from A320-380 or B737-787.
Most of the other guys were either regional guys or 135 guys flying CRJs/ERJs or smaller citations....
And such leads us back to the previous comments, E3 is hurting the labor market for locals ability to compete with high time E3 visas. This hurts our overall market by preventing time building and experience building.
07-17-2022, 02:58 AM
#168
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Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,343
Originally Posted by zerozero
I'm responding to both notthesame and Elevation at the same time.
I'd suggest that every American who is qualified and interested in working for Atlas has a greater chance than an Aussie on a visa of securing a job offer.
Why?
Because it's (the visa and going halfway across the globe to recruit) costing Atlas money and they don't like that. They'd prefer to hire the American without the extra "tax" of the visa.
Don't worry, this won't last forever. The Stansted rip off didn't last forever either.
I'd suggest that every American who is qualified and interested in working for Atlas has a greater chance than an Aussie on a visa of securing a job offer.
Why?
Because it's (the visa and going halfway across the globe to recruit) costing Atlas money and they don't like that. They'd prefer to hire the American without the extra "tax" of the visa.
Don't worry, this won't last forever. The Stansted rip off didn't last forever either.
07-17-2022, 04:22 AM
#170
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Joined APC: Mar 2022
Position: Part time employee
Posts: 168
Originally Posted by notthesame
This is TOTALLY erroneous.
They are hiring Aussies on visa's because they can't get American's to even apply. And those who do apply and are hired, leave within a year to a legacy or purple/brown. Foreign hires negate the need to increase compensation to get domestic new hires through the door, and foreign new hires can't leave or their visa goes away.
They are hiring Aussies on visa's because they can't get American's to even apply. And those who do apply and are hired, leave within a year to a legacy or purple/brown. Foreign hires negate the need to increase compensation to get domestic new hires through the door, and foreign new hires can't leave or their visa goes away.
Spirit Airlines has roadshows in Australia as we type, other outfits have hired them as well. It is probably only a matter of time before UPS and FedEx target this gene pool.
The other visas e.g. EB2s are quite expensive and the candidate has to pay, Atlas does not pay for these.
Another Avenue is for an individual to get a Green Card or marry an American, these have always existed and there are likely thousands of pilots across the industry flying with Green Cards or spouses.
Atlas is just beginning to pay for ATPs for candidates across the board, not just for the E3s.
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