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ALPA shutting down the E3 Pilot Program ?

Old 06-07-2022, 12:06 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by mcfadden View Post
I doubt it was obvious to you.

No, being "close to full staffing" does not make it more likely that the company will make contract improvements compared to having inadequate staffing.
Makes sense obviously. My question to you based on your fire starter post(s): Is it once again time for those tactics years ago of attempting to ward everyone away to achieve the above “inadequate staffing” in even greater numbers for contract improvements? Or, is it something folks just have hard tuned in their DNA and is in play at all times as primal focus, revenge, or resentment - either way a common tactic. Enlighten me how this worked out last time “toxic” tactics were used. Companies are able or not able to hire with or without you, me or any other keyboard warrior on here. This company in particular can expand and let the air out on a dime comparably speaking. We’re (single digits) just not that important, collectively as a group perhaps but $ drives all. Hmmm, Art 33, it’s working for them (me too for now) isn’t it.

*Once again the earlier inputs were lifestyle benefits at Atlas that meet specific requirements since everyone is different. Agree, we need to be part of the industry “standard” in many areas. Bottom line, there is no one outfit that can be declared the “winner” that folks pine away for in every negotiated area universally. Pick one, there will be a chink or two in the armor just find your niche and don’t be a lemming. You know what makes you tick. Everything is cyclic so the podium has always been rotational and subjective at best. Utter chaos out there.

Last edited by C17B74; 06-07-2022 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 06-07-2022, 09:54 AM
  #62  
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People don't make decisions about a new job based on what they read on these pilot chat boards. This is a very small world and if you don't get a friend you trust that works at the company you are targeting on the first call then that friend will refer you to somebody that does. We all know somebody!

To think that you will influence the class sizes and therefore the contract by posting on line is like trying to blow a TS out of your way.
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Old 06-07-2022, 01:06 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by mcfadden View Post
I doubt it was obvious to you.

No, being "close to full staffing" does not make it more likely that the company will make contract improvements compared to having inadequate staffing.
Maybe we're being a little hard on this guy (McFadden)? I think his intentions are pure, in that he wants the best for our pilots. His actions are in line with some older guidance that C17 and others describe. McFadden isn't bad or malicious. He's helpful but misguided.

He's not providing honest answers to questions, but this is a legacy of some old efforts. Those older efforts were rogue but rogue elements included some folk who were in some positions of authority, and they were coordinated. The goal was to affect staffing without crossing certain legal bounds. Of course secrecy is never as secure as anyone imagines. Secrets leak in hours, days or weeks. Months if you're lucky. So rogue efforts feel like they do things, but they usually just lead an organization into a bunch of liabilities at inopportune times.

People become personally invested in rogue efforts. His friends, his mentors, etc. all probably swam in these circles. So turning away from this old effort comes with some costs. I get it. We've all been someplace in our careers where changing course comes with costs. So even when things don't work and create damage, incentives are to hold course into failure.

Our goal ("Us" means people who think like me. I'm not leading or representing any group or organization.) is to bring people like these back into the fold and back online as assets for some potential action in the future. That starts with understanding them. They think they're doing the right thing. People have called out the misinformation campaign. I'd like to point out that this person is trying to help. He's not a jerk; he's been jerked around.
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Old 06-07-2022, 01:08 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by The Dominican View Post
People don't make decisions about a new job based on what they read on these pilot chat boards. This is a very small world and if you don't get a friend you trust that works at the company you are targeting on the first call then that friend will refer you to somebody that does. We all know somebody!

To think that you will influence the class sizes and therefore the contract by posting on line is like trying to blow a TS out of your way.
Well said.
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Old 06-08-2022, 08:21 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Elevation View Post
Maybe we're being a little hard on this guy (McFadden)? I think his intentions are pure, in that he wants the best for our pilots. His actions are in line with some older guidance that C17 and others describe. McFadden isn't bad or malicious. He's helpful but misguided.

He's not providing honest answers to questions, but this is a legacy of some old efforts. Those older efforts were rogue but rogue elements included some folk who were in some positions of authority, and they were coordinated. The goal was to affect staffing without crossing certain legal bounds. Of course secrecy is never as secure as anyone imagines. Secrets leak in hours, days or weeks. Months if you're lucky. So rogue efforts feel like they do things, but they usually just lead an organization into a bunch of liabilities at inopportune times.

People become personally invested in rogue efforts. His friends, his mentors, etc. all probably swam in these circles. So turning away from this old effort comes with some costs. I get it. We've all been someplace in our careers where changing course comes with costs. So even when things don't work and create damage, incentives are to hold course into failure.

Our goal ("Us" means people who think like me. I'm not leading or representing any group or organization.) is to bring people like these back into the fold and back online as assets for some potential action in the future. That starts with understanding them. They think they're doing the right thing. People have called out the misinformation campaign. I'd like to point out that this person is trying to help. He's not a jerk; he's been jerked around.
What was I not being honest about?

Wow, you're assuming a lot of things about me! "Rogue efforts", etc, lol.

This all started when a commenter said that Frontier had a better contract and that someone should go there, or something along those lines. Then the typical company cheerleaders took offense to that and wanted everyone to know that Atlas is a better option.

I agree that Frontier does have a better contract. People should go there over Atlas and until our contract is at least standard or better we should not be shooting ourselves in the foot by encouraging people to come here. It makes us look like a weak pilot group when we so happily accept substandard pay and work rules by encouraging others to come here.

I'm not encouraging anyone to leave unless they find a better opportunity. Just stop with the cheerleading is all I'm saying.
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Old 06-08-2022, 09:05 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by mcfadden View Post
What was I not being honest about?

Wow, you're assuming a lot of things about me! "Rogue efforts", etc, lol.

This all started when a commenter said that Frontier had a better contract and that someone should go there, or something along those lines. Then the typical company cheerleaders took offense to that and wanted everyone to know that Atlas is a better option.

I agree that Frontier does have a better contract. People should go there over Atlas and until our contract is at least standard or better we should not be shooting ourselves in the foot by encouraging people to come here. It makes us look like a weak pilot group when we so happily accept substandard pay and work rules by encouraging others to come here.

I'm not encouraging anyone to leave unless they find a better opportunity. Just stop with the cheerleading is all I'm saying.
Not only you bend the truth, but also call names again. And THAT is the only reason why things got where we got. Nobody is cheerleading here, or denying contract facts, just your manners and tone. Keep calling names and “assuming” things, because you can tell people they assume things about you, but you can assume things about others. “YOUR misery”.
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Old 06-08-2022, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by CRJJ View Post
Not only you bend the truth, but also call names again. And THAT is the only reason why things got where we got. Nobody is cheerleading here, or denying contract facts, just your manners and tone. Keep calling names and “assuming” things, because you can tell people they assume things about you, but you can assume things about others. “YOUR misery”.
What did I "bend" the truth about? You focus so much on the "name calling". It's hardly name calling. Cheerleader and company man? C'mon. You'd be right in assuming that I have very little respect for people like you though.
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Old 06-08-2022, 11:16 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by mcfadden View Post
What did I "bend" the truth about? You focus so much on the "name calling". It's hardly name calling. Cheerleader and company man? C'mon. You'd be right in assuming that I have very little respect for people like you though.
You see? Your words show the type of person you clearly are. I’ve been an immigrant for 15 years, I have thick skin and don’t worry about ignorant people like you. You bark a lot, and you wouldn’t even be able to look at someone’s eyes in person while calling names. You must have a lot of friends
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Old 06-08-2022, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by CRJJ View Post
You see? Your words show the type of person you clearly are. I’ve been an immigrant for 15 years, I have thick skin and don’t worry about ignorant people like you. You bark a lot, and you wouldn’t even be able to look at someone’s eyes in person while calling names. You must have a lot of friends
I must have really struck a chord to elicit such a hostile response. You must know that what I said is true.
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Old 06-08-2022, 11:55 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by mcfadden View Post
I must have really struck a chord to elicit such a hostile response. You must know that what I said is true.
“You'd be right in assuming that I have very little respect for people like you though.”

I’m the hostile here. You are pathetic.
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