I agree..."industry leading" contract 2016 coming to you....in 2020. Good luck. Going to get worse before it gets better. I am not a pessimist... but a realist.

FWIW our CEO specifically stated in one of his public conference calls with investors (8K or 10K) that they were not planning on coming to the table until the last possible moment (2018 or later). The reference is on the "other" pilot forum. IMHO, it will get worse before it gets better.

~Slim

I'll bite...

1. Retirement is about 1/3rd of an industry standard contract.
2. Hourly pay rate is about 75-80% of industry standard.
3. Due to work rules you'll probably only log 80% of the credit hours you would with an industry standard contract.
4. Vacation, getting sick, and even having to take a checkride will all mean that you get guarantee that month.... Guarantee is about 75-80% of industry standard (62 hours).
5. You only get 14 days of vacation a year which is probably half industry standard... Or less.
6. Given that you leave out and are gone for 17 days you'll spend more time at work then you will at a Legacy or Southwest.
7. Unlimited schedule changes will reduce your pay by probably 5%... Possibly more.
8. Profit sharing excludes more than half of the profit. This means that our profit sharing is probably worth about 40% of an industry standard profit sharing - many years much less. Last year my profit sharing was $500.

Given all of that I figure that Atlas pays 60% of what you're paid at a job that people are leaving here for meaning American, Delta, United, Southwest, UPS, or FedEx. While getting compensated at a FAR less rate you'll certainly spend much more time at work. I love Atlas and it's a great place to work but much like they've got a business to run, I have a family to worry about.

I second what Globemaster just said.

It really is a damned shame. This could easily be the best flying job in the world. There is plenty of money to go around and much left on the table due to greed and ego.

Atlas was at one time the most profitable airline in the world, and they continue to make a profit in spite of themselves. Of course, stealing a $5 breakfast helps...

Very helpful, thanks. Sounds like some changes need to be made. And soon...

Notwithstanding your last sentence, and no disrespect intended but just wondering...

Why are you still at Atlas?...

I was the first person in early 2014 to publicly state on this thread that I could not in good conscience recommend Atlas any longer...BUT, I have since tried to offer a balanced view of life at Atlas.

I agree with all the points you make, but your post is still unfinished (IMHO) as it only presents the "squeaky-wheel" side of the situation here and it misrepresents this thread.

If all you (collective you, not personal) want to do is paint a bleak picture and whine, go someplace else, and start another thread. Otherwise, let us all aspire to at least give a complete picture, and present the good and the bad.

I am not at all saying that things are peachy at Atlas, but...

Well, Globemaster was specifically responding to Loop, who listed some of the positives and asked what the major complaints were.

Why are most people leaving? Because for the past two years things have been presented as roses on this board. The real problems with the contract have never been explained. Prospective new hires need to actually understand the reality of working here (good and bad) before they start or else they'll just continue to leave. People deserve to understand the contract they are agreeing to before they agree to it. Or do we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it?

I would say the contract absolutely needs improvement. However in my eyes the main reasons people are leaving are:

-Long-term pay at a Legacy vs. Atlas

-Retirement (just matching here vs. fairly high direct 401k contribution at others)

-Schedule flexibility. (no trading/dropping, only picking up open time. No possible way to modify your schedule after it's awarded. Plus some vacation and training scheduling issues.)

-People that are "stuck." Many 767 pilots that are senior to 747 pilots but are seat-locked are losing lots of pay. Also ANC 747 is the junior base on that side and people lose days off trying to get up there and back for multiple trips(contrary to popular belief, most trips are NOT 17 day lines).

Again, there are a great deal of little contractual issues that all add up, but overall I think those are the main reasons you are seeing people leave.

I don't work OT. If you don't start a modest strike fund on day one, that is on you. It is no different than not contributing to your retirement.

In civilian world you have to have a contingency fund.

I understand how tough it is, however it is a lot less tough than people making less than 20k/yr in the regionals starting a contingency fund.

The great thing is that if you have one, and you never need it, you've had a successful career; no strikes, no furloughs, no 6 month medical vacation. During negotiations when management inevitably takes hostages, you are more apt to stand strong because you can weather the storm.

You've been here long enough you should already have one started. If nothing else, it'll pad that first year pay at another airline with a better contact.