Atlas / Polar, about to hire ???
01-09-2007, 01:23 PM
#12
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 27
I'm sorry, did we all miss something? Aren't all polar pilots part of the atlas family now? My understanding of polar is that it is an airline without pilots, but crewed by atlas pilots (inclusive of atlas and polar pilots). Forgive my ignorance if I am out in left field.
Originally Posted by PolarBear
Ref Polar hiring question-----
Based upon two recent arbitration rulings, the status at Polar is this:
1) all PFEs (57 last count) that were illegally terminated when AAWH transferred "Polar classic" flying to Atlas have been re-instated, with full back pay, benefits, etc and are now just sitting at home, not working, but collecting full pay, benefits, etc.
2) all FOs (approx 100) furloughed due the transfer of "Polar classic" work to Atlas have been recalled, with full back pay,benefits, etc since furlough and are now just sitting at home, not working, but collecting full pay, benefits, etc.
Added Note: All Polar Captains who were downgraded to FO because of AAWH actions to transfer "Polar classic" flying to Atlas have been awarded full back pay, benefits, etc (ie, the difference between Capt and F/O pay).
A third arbitration decision, concerning Atlas flying Polar trips, is in progress. Meeting held 3 Jan 07 between AAWH (holding co of both Atlas and Polar), Polar MEC, and arbitrator to determine remedy. Arbitrator has ruled that AAWH cannot use Atlas to fly Polar schedules, but has not determined what the remedy will be. Outcome at this time is unknown---but decision expected soon.
So, as far as to whether Polar is hiring is a moot point at this time. My guess is not. About 150 Polar guys sitting home collecting pay and not working. I assume AAWH will not let this situation continue for very long.
It all depends on what AAWH decides to do.
If they expand Polar (based upon additional China route awards and the current use of 4 Atlas planes and 120 Atlas crewmembers to do Polar work) by using Polar crews and Polar airplanes, then the possibility exists of future hiring at Polar. This of course implies a corresponding decrease in crew needed at Atlas.
Presently, all Atlas and Polar crews are awaiting the arbitrator's final remedy decision and its impact on both carriers.
No doubt it will be interesting and cause extreme angst to all concerned.
Based upon two recent arbitration rulings, the status at Polar is this:
1) all PFEs (57 last count) that were illegally terminated when AAWH transferred "Polar classic" flying to Atlas have been re-instated, with full back pay, benefits, etc and are now just sitting at home, not working, but collecting full pay, benefits, etc.
2) all FOs (approx 100) furloughed due the transfer of "Polar classic" work to Atlas have been recalled, with full back pay,benefits, etc since furlough and are now just sitting at home, not working, but collecting full pay, benefits, etc.
Added Note: All Polar Captains who were downgraded to FO because of AAWH actions to transfer "Polar classic" flying to Atlas have been awarded full back pay, benefits, etc (ie, the difference between Capt and F/O pay).
A third arbitration decision, concerning Atlas flying Polar trips, is in progress. Meeting held 3 Jan 07 between AAWH (holding co of both Atlas and Polar), Polar MEC, and arbitrator to determine remedy. Arbitrator has ruled that AAWH cannot use Atlas to fly Polar schedules, but has not determined what the remedy will be. Outcome at this time is unknown---but decision expected soon.
So, as far as to whether Polar is hiring is a moot point at this time. My guess is not. About 150 Polar guys sitting home collecting pay and not working. I assume AAWH will not let this situation continue for very long.
It all depends on what AAWH decides to do.
If they expand Polar (based upon additional China route awards and the current use of 4 Atlas planes and 120 Atlas crewmembers to do Polar work) by using Polar crews and Polar airplanes, then the possibility exists of future hiring at Polar. This of course implies a corresponding decrease in crew needed at Atlas.
Presently, all Atlas and Polar crews are awaiting the arbitrator's final remedy decision and its impact on both carriers.
No doubt it will be interesting and cause extreme angst to all concerned.
01-10-2007, 11:22 PM
#13
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: CA 747-400
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by ABXGO
I'm sorry, did we all miss something? Aren't all polar pilots part of the atlas family now? My understanding of polar is that it is an airline without pilots, but crewed by atlas pilots (inclusive of atlas and polar pilots). Forgive my ignorance if I am out in left field.
Some background on what is really what.
Atlas Air World Wide, Inc (AAWH) is a holding company with two subsidiaries that operate independently of each other. It owns Polar Air Cargo and it owns Atlas Air. Each operate under their own FAA certificate (Atlas as a Supplemental carrier, Polar as a Flag carrier). Each has their own crews and dispatch. Only Polar crews fly Polar airplanes, only Atlas crews fly Atlas airplanes. Atlas and Polar crews are not mixed, ie, an Atlas captain cannot fly with a Polar F/O and vice versa. A Polar crew cannot fly an Atlas airplane and an Atlas crew cannot fly a Polar airplane. (Think AWA and US Air---operations are totally separate).
AAWH has attempted to merge Atlas Air and Polar several times. For reasons unknown to both pilot groups, AAWH has aborted the process. Presently, their is no, repeat, no merger planned. AAWH called off the last attempt this past fall.
All the fuss you have heard about for the past year has been caused by "scope" clause violations caused by AAWH. Both Atlas Air and Polar pilots are represented by ALPA.
Atlas Air is an ACMI carrier. It has no route authorities (except US-Brazil). It wet-leases (ie, contracts out planes and crews ) to foreign carriers (Emirates, BA, etc) and flies under their callsigns.
Polar is a scheduled carrier with route authorities (US-Japan, US-China, US-Hong Kong) and operates scheduled service to about 10 cities worldwide.
This past July, AAWH got rid of all of Polar classic 747s. As a result, they terminated the PFEs and furloughed a 100 F/Os. Polar scheduled service did not go away. In fact, Polar was awarded more China routes to Beijing. Instead of growing Polar, AAWH, because of lost ACMI business, decided to "subcontract" the Polar work out to Atlas Air. Atlas Air starting flying approximately 4 a/c and 120 pilots on Polar routes using Polar callsigns.
This is when the proverbial "sh....t" hit the fan, so to speak. Polar ALPA filed grievances. These greivances were won by the Polar pilots----hence, the reinstatement of all terminated PFEs and furloughed F/Os with full back pay, etc.
A final grievance concerning Atlas Air flying Polar work is awaiting decision from the arbitrator as to the remedy.
As you would guess, relations between the three groups (AAWH, Atlas pilots, and Polar pilots) is not good. It is like a three-way cat fight. Picture a triangle, each group in its own corner, defending its turf, and nobody winning.
To complicate things further, DHL Worldwide just bought a 49% ownership interest of Polar. So as it stands now, AAWH owns 100% of Atlas Air and 51% of Polar. The pilots now have no clue as to what is happening and where this will lead.
So, to address your second thought about Polar being "...an airline without pilots, but crewed by atlas pilots..." is wrong. Polar is an airline with Polar pilots and Atlas is an airline with Atlas pilots, each standing on opposite sides of the river trying to figure out what the hell is going on.
I'm sorry to bore you will all of this. Just trying to clear the air.
01-10-2007, 11:33 PM
#14
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: CA 747-400
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by ABXGO
I'm sorry, did we all miss something? Aren't all polar pilots part of the atlas family now? My understanding of polar is that it is an airline without pilots, but crewed by atlas pilots (inclusive of atlas and polar pilots). Forgive my ignorance if I am out in left field.
Some background on what is really what.
Atlas Air World Wide, Inc (AAWH) is a holding company with two subsidiaries that operate independently of each other. It owns Polar Air Cargo and it owns Atlas Air. Each operate under their own FAA certificate (Atlas as a Supplemental carrier, Polar as a Flag carrier). Each has their own crews and dispatch. Only Polar crews fly Polar airplanes, only Atlas crews fly Atlas airplanes. Atlas and Polar crews are not mixed, ie, an Atlas captain cannot fly with a Polar F/O and vice versa. A Polar crew cannot fly an Atlas airplane and an Atlas crew cannot fly a Polar airplane. (Think AWA and US Air---operations are totally separate).
AAWH has attempted to merge Atlas Air and Polar several times. For reasons unknown to both pilot groups, AAWH has aborted the process. Presently, their is no, repeat, no merger planned. AAWH called off the last attempt this past fall.
All the fuss you have heard about for the past year has been caused by "scope" clause violations caused by AAWH. Both Atlas Air and Polar pilots are represented by ALPA.
Atlas Air is an ACMI carrier. It has no route authorities (except US-Brazil). It wet-leases (ie, contracts out planes and crews ) to foreign carriers (Emirates, BA, etc) and flies under their callsigns.
Polar is a scheduled carrier with route authorities (US-Japan, US-China, US-Hong Kong) and operates scheduled service to about 10 cities worldwide.
This past July, AAWH got rid of all of Polar classic 747s. As a result, they terminated the PFEs and furloughed a 100 F/Os. Polar scheduled service did not go away. In fact, Polar was awarded more China routes to Beijing. Instead of growing Polar, AAWH, because of lost ACMI business, decided to "subcontract" the Polar work out to Atlas Air. Atlas Air starting flying approximately 4 a/c and 120 pilots on Polar routes using Polar callsigns.
This is when the proverbial "sh....t" hit the fan, so to speak. Polar ALPA filed grievances. These greivances were won by the Polar pilots----hence, the reinstatement of all terminated PFEs and furloughed F/Os with full back pay, etc.
A final grievance concerning Atlas Air flying Polar work is awaiting decision from the arbitrator as to the remedy.
As you would guess, relations between the three groups (AAWH, Atlas pilots, and Polar pilots) is not good. It is like a three-way cat fight. Picture a triangle, each group in its own corner, defending its turf, and nobody winning.
To complicate things further, DHL Worldwide just bought a 49% ownership interest of Polar. So as it stands now, AAWH owns 100% of Atlas Air and 51% of Polar. The pilots now have no clue as to what is happening and where this will lead.
So, to address your second thought about Polar being "...an airline without pilots, but crewed by atlas pilots..." is wrong. Polar is an airline with Polar pilots and Atlas is an airline with Atlas pilots, each standing on opposite sides of the river trying to figure out what the hell is going on.
I'm sorry to bore you will all of this. Just trying to clear the air.
01-12-2007, 08:21 AM
#18
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: in ramp hell
Posts: 65
Furthermore
The two airlines are in the long process of standardizing the procedures so we could have a common training course and be able to have crews move in and out of the two types of services. I dont see why this is so bad. The intent is to have pilots fly the segment that has more demand as the market changes. It helps both companies, and in the end, both airlines. Look, more pilots are retiring so the recalls will eventually begin, and being able to crew both airlines with one pilot group will help keep costs down. Right now I'm writing many revisions to many of the manuals to mirror each other, like the ALM.
The Classics will be shrunk, when is the million dollar question. The -8 will arrive late 2010 and we are currently configuring the airplane to our wants.
We are sorting out our trial plan for digital documents (for future EFB) and moving towards merging our MX control. We already have one Engineering/ Reliability and MX planning group. There will always be two certificates by law because of the route authorities. With the guaranteed lift with DHL for 20 years, I think the future at both divisions is stable. I dont think we'll all get rich, but at this point, pilots at both make more money than Delta pilots.
So, while there are two groups at either sides of a river, they should paddle out to the middle, get in one stronger boat, and steam together upstream.
Think about it: would you rather be flying Kallitta or Evergreen or World?
As soon as we get out MX back to where it was when Chowdry ran it, I think we'll be in great shape.
OH, and my favorite flavor is cherry!
The Classics will be shrunk, when is the million dollar question. The -8 will arrive late 2010 and we are currently configuring the airplane to our wants.
We are sorting out our trial plan for digital documents (for future EFB) and moving towards merging our MX control. We already have one Engineering/ Reliability and MX planning group. There will always be two certificates by law because of the route authorities. With the guaranteed lift with DHL for 20 years, I think the future at both divisions is stable. I dont think we'll all get rich, but at this point, pilots at both make more money than Delta pilots.
So, while there are two groups at either sides of a river, they should paddle out to the middle, get in one stronger boat, and steam together upstream.
Think about it: would you rather be flying Kallitta or Evergreen or World?
As soon as we get out MX back to where it was when Chowdry ran it, I think we'll be in great shape.
OH, and my favorite flavor is cherry!
01-12-2007, 10:19 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 405
Originally Posted by ultradrvr
got an e-mail from my bud at Atlas.....chief pilot says they should be hiring around july to august depending on when the -8s come in and when and how many/fast they retire the -200s
01-12-2007, 11:39 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 466
Just a minor correction or two to PolarBear. Atlas is a Flag carrier. We operate under Supplemental once in awhile, just like Polar does.
Besides ACMI, we have charters, and do a lot of Military flying. That's why you hear a lot of Giant call signs. We also haul for freight forwarders out of HKG under Giant call signs.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the furloughed/fired CM's got "all back pay", just made whole. There's a difference. If they got another job, or any unemployment, they just receive the difference in what their guarantee would have been and what they received from other sources.
A question, to come back to Polar, and sit and collect pay at home, did they have to quit a job they may have gotten in the mean time?
Besides ACMI, we have charters, and do a lot of Military flying. That's why you hear a lot of Giant call signs. We also haul for freight forwarders out of HKG under Giant call signs.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the furloughed/fired CM's got "all back pay", just made whole. There's a difference. If they got another job, or any unemployment, they just receive the difference in what their guarantee would have been and what they received from other sources.
A question, to come back to Polar, and sit and collect pay at home, did they have to quit a job they may have gotten in the mean time?
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