Atlas / Polar, about to hire ???
 

I was at the Grande Cafe last week in L.A. and talked to a Polar guy. I was told that they will probably have to hire pretty soon. Anyone have any info on this?

I heard that the Daz and his boys at Astar are going to buy Polar/Atlas.....

PLEASE!!! Enough with the nonsense. Daz is all talk, always has been, always will be! I would send a resume to ABX, they should be accepting soon. I know I will be!:)

How do u figure that???? With the parking of the 8s and the 16 or so still on furlough not to mention the surplusing that is going on...oh and lets not forget the non-stop open flying that is and has been going on since the day the first man (me) was furloughed. maybe you know something I dont.

It was simply based on what I have heard some of your guys have say, some on the property, some on other forums. Maybe they are blowing smoke or smoking crack. I hope it is true so that you can get your job back (if you want it). Aren't fellow members just grand? What a bunch of great guys to help you out, you get to stay at home while they work for you. Never understood that mentality.

I see...I thought maybe u worked at ABX based on your name....you might want to look into other carriers. Abx is kind of locked in to where they are right now...if you get hired you will be a F/O for quite a long time and probably be on reserve until enough people retire or die so you can hold a line. I dont really have a choice, I gotta wait for ABX if I want to fly 121...I'm gettin too old and no college. If I would go back I imagine I would reitire a 76 F/O. Also dont forget, they are parking the 8s and just recently heard from the chief pilot that they need to find something to replace the 9...if they replace it at all, he talked about an all 76 fleet...thats a lot of crews to surplus into the 76...it smells of another furlough. Just a thought....its darkest before the dawn. (I think)

didnt mean to turn this into a ABX post...just emailed a bud at Atlas. I will post when I hear something

Nahhh, not gonna happen
 

I haven't heard that. Not in our hallways....
I doubt it as we still have to recall our Polar pilots laid off when we parked the classics. If Polar has recalled them all I would be surprised.

Well they were just ordered to make a of the Polar pilots full again. That is a good sign.

Ref Polar hiring question-----

Based upon two recent arbitration rulings, the status at Polar is this:

1) all PFEs (57 last count) that were illegally terminated when AAWH transferred "Polar classic" flying to Atlas have been re-instated, with full back pay, benefits, etc and are now just sitting at home, not working, but collecting full pay, benefits, etc.

2) all FOs (approx 100) furloughed due the transfer of "Polar classic" work to Atlas have been recalled, with full back pay,benefits, etc since furlough and are now just sitting at home, not working, but collecting full pay, benefits, etc.

Added Note: All Polar Captains who were downgraded to FO because of AAWH actions to transfer "Polar classic" flying to Atlas have been awarded full back pay, benefits, etc (ie, the difference between Capt and F/O pay).

A third arbitration decision, concerning Atlas flying Polar trips, is in progress. Meeting held 3 Jan 07 between AAWH (holding co of both Atlas and Polar), Polar MEC, and arbitrator to determine remedy. Arbitrator has ruled that AAWH cannot use Atlas to fly Polar schedules, but has not determined what the remedy will be. Outcome at this time is unknown---but decision expected soon.

So, as far as to whether Polar is hiring is a moot point at this time. My guess is not. About 150 Polar guys sitting home collecting pay and not working. I assume AAWH will not let this situation continue for very long.

It all depends on what AAWH decides to do.

If they expand Polar (based upon additional China route awards and the current use of 4 Atlas planes and 120 Atlas crewmembers to do Polar work) by using Polar crews and Polar airplanes, then the possibility exists of future hiring at Polar. This of course implies a corresponding decrease in crew needed at Atlas.

Presently, all Atlas and Polar crews are awaiting the arbitrator's final remedy decision and its impact on both carriers.

No doubt it will be interesting and cause extreme angst to all concerned.

What a mess! I am glad the situation is working itself to an end, one way or another. Good luck!

I'm sorry, did we all miss something? Aren't all polar pilots part of the atlas family now? My understanding of polar is that it is an airline without pilots, but crewed by atlas pilots (inclusive of atlas and polar pilots). Forgive my ignorance if I am out in left field.

Forgiven ABXGO---Unfortunately, most of the industry has a misconception on what is really happening with the Atlas-Polar situation.

Some background on what is really what.

Atlas Air World Wide, Inc (AAWH) is a holding company with two subsidiaries that operate independently of each other. It owns Polar Air Cargo and it owns Atlas Air. Each operate under their own FAA certificate (Atlas as a Supplemental carrier, Polar as a Flag carrier). Each has their own crews and dispatch. Only Polar crews fly Polar airplanes, only Atlas crews fly Atlas airplanes. Atlas and Polar crews are not mixed, ie, an Atlas captain cannot fly with a Polar F/O and vice versa. A Polar crew cannot fly an Atlas airplane and an Atlas crew cannot fly a Polar airplane. (Think AWA and US Air---operations are totally separate).

AAWH has attempted to merge Atlas Air and Polar several times. For reasons unknown to both pilot groups, AAWH has aborted the process. Presently, their is no, repeat, no merger planned. AAWH called off the last attempt this past fall.

All the fuss you have heard about for the past year has been caused by "scope" clause violations caused by AAWH. Both Atlas Air and Polar pilots are represented by ALPA.

Atlas Air is an ACMI carrier. It has no route authorities (except US-Brazil). It wet-leases (ie, contracts out planes and crews ) to foreign carriers (Emirates, BA, etc) and flies under their callsigns.

Polar is a scheduled carrier with route authorities (US-Japan, US-China, US-Hong Kong) and operates scheduled service to about 10 cities worldwide.

This past July, AAWH got rid of all of Polar classic 747s. As a result, they terminated the PFEs and furloughed a 100 F/Os. Polar scheduled service did not go away. In fact, Polar was awarded more China routes to Beijing. Instead of growing Polar, AAWH, because of lost ACMI business, decided to "subcontract" the Polar work out to Atlas Air. Atlas Air starting flying approximately 4 a/c and 120 pilots on Polar routes using Polar callsigns.

This is when the proverbial "sh....t" hit the fan, so to speak. Polar ALPA filed grievances. These greivances were won by the Polar pilots----hence, the reinstatement of all terminated PFEs and furloughed F/Os with full back pay, etc.

A final grievance concerning Atlas Air flying Polar work is awaiting decision from the arbitrator as to the remedy.

As you would guess, relations between the three groups (AAWH, Atlas pilots, and Polar pilots) is not good. It is like a three-way cat fight. Picture a triangle, each group in its own corner, defending its turf, and nobody winning.

To complicate things further, DHL Worldwide just bought a 49% ownership interest of Polar. So as it stands now, AAWH owns 100% of Atlas Air and 51% of Polar. The pilots now have no clue as to what is happening and where this will lead.

So, to address your second thought about Polar being "...an airline without pilots, but crewed by atlas pilots..." is wrong. Polar is an airline with Polar pilots and Atlas is an airline with Atlas pilots, each standing on opposite sides of the river trying to figure out what the hell is going on.

I'm sorry to bore you will all of this. Just trying to clear the air.

Forgiven ABXGO---Unfortunately, most of the industry has a misconception on what is really happening with the Atlas-Polar situation.

Some background on what is really what.

Atlas Air World Wide, Inc (AAWH) is a holding company with two subsidiaries that operate independently of each other. It owns Polar Air Cargo and it owns Atlas Air. Each operate under their own FAA certificate (Atlas as a Supplemental carrier, Polar as a Flag carrier). Each has their own crews and dispatch. Only Polar crews fly Polar airplanes, only Atlas crews fly Atlas airplanes. Atlas and Polar crews are not mixed, ie, an Atlas captain cannot fly with a Polar F/O and vice versa. A Polar crew cannot fly an Atlas airplane and an Atlas crew cannot fly a Polar airplane. (Think AWA and US Air---operations are totally separate).

AAWH has attempted to merge Atlas Air and Polar several times. For reasons unknown to both pilot groups, AAWH has aborted the process. Presently, their is no, repeat, no merger planned. AAWH called off the last attempt this past fall.

All the fuss you have heard about for the past year has been caused by "scope" clause violations caused by AAWH. Both Atlas Air and Polar pilots are represented by ALPA.

Atlas Air is an ACMI carrier. It has no route authorities (except US-Brazil). It wet-leases (ie, contracts out planes and crews ) to foreign carriers (Emirates, BA, etc) and flies under their callsigns.

Polar is a scheduled carrier with route authorities (US-Japan, US-China, US-Hong Kong) and operates scheduled service to about 10 cities worldwide.

This past July, AAWH got rid of all of Polar classic 747s. As a result, they terminated the PFEs and furloughed a 100 F/Os. Polar scheduled service did not go away. In fact, Polar was awarded more China routes to Beijing. Instead of growing Polar, AAWH, because of lost ACMI business, decided to "subcontract" the Polar work out to Atlas Air. Atlas Air starting flying approximately 4 a/c and 120 pilots on Polar routes using Polar callsigns.

This is when the proverbial "sh....t" hit the fan, so to speak. Polar ALPA filed grievances. These greivances were won by the Polar pilots----hence, the reinstatement of all terminated PFEs and furloughed F/Os with full back pay, etc.

A final grievance concerning Atlas Air flying Polar work is awaiting decision from the arbitrator as to the remedy.

As you would guess, relations between the three groups (AAWH, Atlas pilots, and Polar pilots) is not good. It is like a three-way cat fight. Picture a triangle, each group in its own corner, defending its turf, and nobody winning.

To complicate things further, DHL Worldwide just bought a 49% ownership interest of Polar. So as it stands now, AAWH owns 100% of Atlas Air and 51% of Polar. The pilots now have no clue as to what is happening and where this will lead.

So, to address your second thought about Polar being "...an airline without pilots, but crewed by atlas pilots..." is wrong. Polar is an airline with Polar pilots and Atlas is an airline with Atlas pilots, each standing on opposite sides of the river trying to figure out what the hell is going on.

I'm sorry to bore you will all of this. Just trying to clear the air.

Thanks for setting the record straight. Nothing worse than being mis-informed.
Adios!

Either way it sucks.

got an e-mail from my bud at Atlas.....chief pilot says they should be hiring around july to august depending on when the -8s come in and when and how many/fast they retire the -200s

Furthermore
 

The two airlines are in the long process of standardizing the procedures so we could have a common training course and be able to have crews move in and out of the two types of services. I dont see why this is so bad. The intent is to have pilots fly the segment that has more demand as the market changes. It helps both companies, and in the end, both airlines. Look, more pilots are retiring so the recalls will eventually begin, and being able to crew both airlines with one pilot group will help keep costs down. Right now I'm writing many revisions to many of the manuals to mirror each other, like the ALM.
The Classics will be shrunk, when is the million dollar question. The -8 will arrive late 2010 and we are currently configuring the airplane to our wants.
We are sorting out our trial plan for digital documents (for future EFB) and moving towards merging our MX control. We already have one Engineering/ Reliability and MX planning group. There will always be two certificates by law because of the route authorities. With the guaranteed lift with DHL for 20 years, I think the future at both divisions is stable. I dont think we'll all get rich, but at this point, pilots at both make more money than Delta pilots.
So, while there are two groups at either sides of a river, they should paddle out to the middle, get in one stronger boat, and steam together upstream.

Think about it: would you rather be flying Kallitta or Evergreen or World?

As soon as we get out MX back to where it was when Chowdry ran it, I think we'll be in great shape.

OH, and my favorite flavor is cherry!

The -8's come in 2011 to 2012. Maybe that's July 2011 for the hiring.

Just a minor correction or two to PolarBear. Atlas is a Flag carrier. We operate under Supplemental once in awhile, just like Polar does.

Besides ACMI, we have charters, and do a lot of Military flying. That's why you hear a lot of Giant call signs. We also haul for freight forwarders out of HKG under Giant call signs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the furloughed/fired CM's got "all back pay", just made whole. There's a difference. If they got another job, or any unemployment, they just receive the difference in what their guarantee would have been and what they received from other sources.

A question, to come back to Polar, and sit and collect pay at home, did they have to quit a job they may have gotten in the mean time?

Whale or PolarBear-

What about the arbitrated seniority list that just came out a couple of months ago? Did this get thrown out, or will it stand?

Also, what are the rumors coming from the MIA crew meeting?

Just a few minor corrections
 

Polar Bear must mean "Scheduled Route Authorities" and even then he is partially wrong. Atlas has route authorities all over the world and in virtually every country including some scheduled into Germany. The Brazillian scheduled rights were Atlas' until AAWW shut down Polar's 4 in favor of letting Polar fly Atlas' 10 slots.

This is simply untrue. Atlas has not tried to call off the merger - they have just said that all pilots will be Atlas pilots which was a switch from an earlier position. And the merger is still on and still going forward.

AAWW got rid of the last three Polar classics and took back the 3 that they were allowing Polar to use for free. Atlas did not just start flying those routes, they have been doing so for years. And flght time-wise it is really only an aircraft and a half worth of routes. They do not fly (are cancelled) if there is not a pre-positioning charter on the front side as the loads ex-US are too small to be profitable.

One would hope that winning the battles does not mean losing the war.

Polar Bear is misinformed here too. DHL bought 49% of a company known as Polar World Wide which really has nothing to do with Polar. AAWW still owns Polar Air Cargo and will continue to own 100% of it. As the deal seems to be structured Polar World Wide will not have any pilots at all. All the pilots to fly the aircraft assigned to Polar World Wide will come from the Atlas list which will be made up of the Atlas and Polar pilots IAW the merger agreement in place.

Is Denise Cambone still in charge of pilot hiring?

She's still there, but there are furloughs planned for later this year, due to the fleet renewal program. Atlas will start phasing out the classic aircraft, and is scheduled to receive 6 747-8 in 2010 and 6 more in 2011. So it looks like we will shrink, before we start to grow again.

The list stands as is, but will not be activated until a combined contract is in place.

On the MIA meeting, I've heard from a guy, that got info second hand. Let's see if someone posts info that was there. No sense in getting people riled up and/or worried for nothing.

From the MIA meeting:

Looks like Polar will be getting Atlas N355MC. All Polar pilots recalled with back pay. Dunno how they will all stay qualified with only one airplane though. Atlas will no longer be performing alliance flying (the "four" aircraft that PB was talking about) - as I said win the battle; lose the war.

Atlas will have some furloughs. The company said the furlough is not related to the Polar arbitration award and is more related to their desire to get completely out of -200 airframes. They will park 2 or 3 Classics by August of 2007. -8's start arriving in 2010.

Estimated completion date for the merger that some think is going away is January or February 2008.

Polar Bear is right on one thing tho - it is the worst Goat-rope I have ever seen. And pretty much anyone who works at either airline knows who the head goat-roper is.

I think the answer to this question is in the fact that Atlas will no longer be flying Alliance flying, meaning that Polar will then be free to furlough again.