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Old 08-01-2018, 09:21 PM   #31  
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What type of gun was it, I wonder, that they held to his head during that signing?

It must have been very scary.
Unemployment? Could be problematic if you have a family.
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:40 PM   #32  
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Unemployment? Could be problematic if you have a family.
Most of us who have been around for very long have been through a furlough, downsizing, closing, merger, yada, yada, and have done it with families. To suggest that one is forced into the job because of X is an excuse. He signed the contract to get what he wanted. He got it. Now he wants out.

I showed up at an operator for a job. No mention of a contract. I'd already separated from the other job. Moved to a new city. Ready to go. Day two the CEO entered the room, stack of paper in hand. Here's a 18 month contract, sign it or hit the bricks.

Bye-bye said I. Hold on a moment, said he. I don't do that.

I showed up at an interview for a company. No mention of paying for training. Not found. In between one of the interviews I caught wind of the scheme, so when they shuttled me into the interview room and the interviewer asked if I had any questions I said yes, indeed. I hear you're charging for training, with a bond. Yes, he admitted, we are, but it won't apply to you, given your experience. They had a cutoff point, and I wouldn't have been required to sign. Did I have a problem with that, I was asked. Why, yes?

Three of us walked out, caught the hotel shuttle to the airport, and left.

Homey don't play that, as the saying went, and homey went home (where one hangs one's hat. It's a mobile hat).

A few times over the years I've been told do this, sign that, agree to something, if you wish to keep your paycheck. At times it was with young ones, at times it was in a place where the employer might have thought he had me over a barrel. I've been known to say pound sand, take a hike, Sayonara, and a few other things, some less polite. I even had an employer hold me by the throat and slam me against a hangar wall when I was a 18 year old ag pilot...told me if I didn't agree I'd get a shotgun in my mouth. Unlike the original poster, I really did have the proverbial gun to the head, but unlike the original poster, I understand the concept of "no." It still works today.

If you want to call fear of saying "no" to be duress, by all means, glob onto that excuse, but it doesn't impress me, and you may have a hard time selling it to the judge.
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:45 PM   #33  
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Once I was asked to sign a one year contract after I returned from recurrent.
I said no thank you I served my (initial) year and Iím still here with every intention of staying.
They asked again after my upgrade training and I said no thank you thatís the cost of doing business.
My best advice is still to sit it out and take it as a learning moment.
You hear the sirens calling your name and you lay awake at night seeing seniority lists floating by no doubt.
Your reputation and your credit score will thank you.
Iím not saying they will but if you bail they have the option to send it to collection and collection agencies...well they couldnít care less is the polite way of saying it.
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:34 AM   #34  
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Most of us who have been around for very long have been through a furlough, downsizing, closing, merger, yada, yada, and have done it with families. To suggest that one is forced into the job because of X is an excuse. He signed the contract to get what he wanted. He got it. Now he wants out.

I showed up at an operator for a job. No mention of a contract. I'd already separated from the other job. Moved to a new city. Ready to go. Day two the CEO entered the room, stack of paper in hand. Here's a 18 month contract, sign it or hit the bricks.

Bye-bye said I. Hold on a moment, said he. I don't do that.

I showed up at an interview for a company. No mention of paying for training. Not found. In between one of the interviews I caught wind of the scheme, so when they shuttled me into the interview room and the interviewer asked if I had any questions I said yes, indeed. I hear you're charging for training, with a bond. Yes, he admitted, we are, but it won't apply to you, given your experience. They had a cutoff point, and I wouldn't have been required to sign. Did I have a problem with that, I was asked. Why, yes?

Three of us walked out, caught the hotel shuttle to the airport, and left.

Homey don't play that, as the saying went, and homey went home (where one hangs one's hat. It's a mobile hat).

A few times over the years I've been told do this, sign that, agree to something, if you wish to keep your paycheck. At times it was with young ones, at times it was in a place where the employer might have thought he had me over a barrel. I've been known to say pound sand, take a hike, Sayonara, and a few other things, some less polite. I even had an employer hold me by the throat and slam me against a hangar wall when I was a 18 year old ag pilot...told me if I didn't agree I'd get a shotgun in my mouth. Unlike the original poster, I really did have the proverbial gun to the head, but unlike the original poster, I understand the concept of "no." It still works today.

If you want to call fear of saying "no" to be duress, by all means, glob onto that excuse, but it doesn't impress me, and you may have a hard time selling it to the judge.
You and I know that, I have about $500K in fairly liquid assets for that reason alone... enough to switch to another career, in no particular hurry. But maybe not everyone is in that position when they're fairly young.
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Old 08-02-2018, 08:46 AM   #35  
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You and I know that, I have about $500K in fairly liquid assets for that reason alone...
Dayuuum what course you on....
Ramsey 2.0?
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:47 AM   #36  
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If you don’t have a substantial emergency fund in aviation, you’re a “dead man walking”, so to speak, I know a couple of EAL guys that spent like drunken sailors right up til the end, believing it could never happen. One hung himself and not he wasn’t the only one. I flew with several guys that were “just along for the ride; I don’t know of anything else to do, this is all I know”. Often, they were guys hired in the Sixties with a 150 hours and no other skills. I vowed never to put myself in that hole.

Secondly, if, as speculated, this is a Global type rating, dude, you can make $1500-$1800 per day after agency fees. Paid off in six months and have a back up plan.


GF

Last edited by galaxy flyer; 08-02-2018 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 08-02-2018, 11:40 AM   #37  
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You and I know that, I have about $500K in fairly liquid assets for that reason alone... enough to switch to another career, in no particular hurry. But maybe not everyone is in that position when they're fairly young.
That must be nice.

I never did.

In fact I walked away from an employer over maintenance and other issues with a young wife, newborn, and two dogs, and zero in the bank, zero in the pocket, no food reserves, and a tank of gas. There were only two other ways it would have gone; his aircraft would have killed me, or I'd have killed him.

I still wonder what the food would have been like in Cell Block C.
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Old 08-03-2018, 08:38 AM   #38  
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That must be nice.

I never did.

In fact I walked away from an employer over maintenance and other issues with a young wife, newborn, and two dogs, and zero in the bank, zero in the pocket, no food reserves, and a tank of gas. There were only two other ways it would have gone; his aircraft would have killed me, or I'd have killed him.

I still wonder what the food would have been like in Cell Block C.
Well yeah, if it's unsafe.

But it took me a while to save up the reserves... four jobs between the wife and I, for 20 years.
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Old 08-03-2018, 06:08 PM   #39  
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Well yeah, if it's unsafe.

But it took me a while to save up the reserves... four jobs between the wife and I, for 20 years.

Save. The key word. But to some people, it's a word they can't comprehend.

Many years ago (pre 911) I knew a senior pilot for one of the majors. God alone knows what he was making as a 747 Captain flying mainly US to Japan. He had a big house on serious acreage, ALL the toys, boats (cruise and speed), bikes (dirt and street), two different aircraft (beech Debonair and Citabria), and several gun safes full of ordnance....

His airline was permitted to go on strike - and they did for all of two weeks before Northwest settled. He had to sell the Debonair and the Harley at a deep discount o raise the money to pay the mortgage and credit card bills.

Dude lived paycheck to paycheck and didn't save a dime, counting on his pension to see him through when the music finally stopped. That doesn't generally work well - it didn't for the Delta folks.

So I tell anyone that I fly with that asks...

Don't be that guy.
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Old 08-18-2018, 10:20 PM   #40  
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I'd really like to know more about the operation. What the type rating was, and specifically - did both pilots require a type rating for the insurance or the ops specs of the operation.

The contract could be unenforceable for lack of consideration. (this also applies to promissory notes)

If the company/airline/operation requires (by their own choosing) that both pilots be trained to a certain standard...then the training is not for your benefit, but for the benefit of the company.

Call a lawyer that specializes in business contracts.
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