Breaking Training Contract Help
#82
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 5
135 Safety issues broke contract
Can I talk to you about this?
#83
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 5
#84
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,926
I was flying for a 135, had 3 emergencies in a row, last one was particularly bad. I told them I would not fly the airplane again until it was fixed. They said (without replacing any parts) its working now. I told them I'm not flying it, now they want $10k.
Can I talk to you about this?
Can I talk to you about this?
Your comments are so generic as to negate any discussion, but it sounds like you're saying that a repair requires a part replacement. What was the writeup, and what was the fix? 3 emergencies on the same flight? Same occurrences three times?
Do you have a training contract?
A pilot cannot be expected to fly an unairworthy aircraft. The specifics of the situation, however, dictate all. A company cannot hold you to a contract under the guise that you are required to fly in unsafe conditions, an unairworthy airplane, or contrary to the regulation.
First and foremost, document, document, document. Copies of writeups, logs, signoffs, whatever you can. Any correspondence between you. Hang onto everything, document everything and make a thorough narrative with all the detail you can, while it's fresh.
How recent are these events? Have you filed an ASRS report?
#85
If it’s a 135 they have a POI and a Maintenance Inspector.
A phone call is pretty cheap these days.
The Chief pilot or DO should have their number.
You won’t be popular but sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand.
A phone call is pretty cheap these days.
The Chief pilot or DO should have their number.
You won’t be popular but sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand.
#86
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,926
It sounds like this may be an old event, but regardless, there is a stigma attached to that phone call.
If one is working there now and looking for results, a direct call to the FAA may yield a result, balanced against whether one hopes to keep the job or is seeking improvement with the operator. If the operator learns that the pilot has called the FAA, it may very well turn into a problem for the pilot. There's always the national hotline (submitted online: https://hotline.faa.gov).
If the poster above has received a demand for a training bond to be repaid, it sounds as though the poster has been terminated, or has quit. Calling the FAA or contacting the hotline may seem vindictive, and when dealing with future employers, there is always the concern about what the former employe may say...this guy called the FAA. Future employers aren't excited about hiring someone who may do that to them, so that stigma doesn't end with the last house.
There is also the issue of the FAA; I've seen cases in which the FAA took action to force an employer to clean up, but I've seen more cases where the FAA looked the other way, and many cases in which the FAA might go after the employer, but will certainly go after the pilot in command, if a violation has occurred...and the determination regarding a violation is made in retrospect, looking back, with the benefit of time, thought, and research. Under administrative law, the subject (be it company, or pilot) is guilty until proven innocent, so any violation procedure, be it certificate action or administrative procedure, takes place first, with appeal (the chance to prove or argue innocence, after. At that point, it's already a matter of record, no matter the outcome. Under the new data clearinghouse, it's a matter of lifetime record.
There's also the consideration that many inspectors are loathe to move against the employer, and if the employer gets wind, may skate out of it with a simple voluntary disclosure reporting program, which enables them to lighten their load and walk, while throwing the pilot under the bus.
Again, this is why the details matter. The devil dwells within them.
If one is working there now and looking for results, a direct call to the FAA may yield a result, balanced against whether one hopes to keep the job or is seeking improvement with the operator. If the operator learns that the pilot has called the FAA, it may very well turn into a problem for the pilot. There's always the national hotline (submitted online: https://hotline.faa.gov).
If the poster above has received a demand for a training bond to be repaid, it sounds as though the poster has been terminated, or has quit. Calling the FAA or contacting the hotline may seem vindictive, and when dealing with future employers, there is always the concern about what the former employe may say...this guy called the FAA. Future employers aren't excited about hiring someone who may do that to them, so that stigma doesn't end with the last house.
There is also the issue of the FAA; I've seen cases in which the FAA took action to force an employer to clean up, but I've seen more cases where the FAA looked the other way, and many cases in which the FAA might go after the employer, but will certainly go after the pilot in command, if a violation has occurred...and the determination regarding a violation is made in retrospect, looking back, with the benefit of time, thought, and research. Under administrative law, the subject (be it company, or pilot) is guilty until proven innocent, so any violation procedure, be it certificate action or administrative procedure, takes place first, with appeal (the chance to prove or argue innocence, after. At that point, it's already a matter of record, no matter the outcome. Under the new data clearinghouse, it's a matter of lifetime record.
There's also the consideration that many inspectors are loathe to move against the employer, and if the employer gets wind, may skate out of it with a simple voluntary disclosure reporting program, which enables them to lighten their load and walk, while throwing the pilot under the bus.
Again, this is why the details matter. The devil dwells within them.
#88
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,926
You mean the friendly aviation administration? "Hi, we're from the FAA, and we're here to help you?" Those guys?
Salt of the earth. They'd give you the shirt off their back, or the unmatched socks off their feet.
They are the Jedi warriors of the aviation safety commuity; regulatory hawks who are only in their position because their stellar record and vast aviation experience could not be contained within the private sector. They are the blessing, which we are unable to count.
It's probably why they only allow applicants who have had no more than two aircraft accidents for which they were at fault. And who coulnd't make it in the private sector.
And apparently, can't match socks.
Salt of the earth. They'd give you the shirt off their back, or the unmatched socks off their feet.
They are the Jedi warriors of the aviation safety commuity; regulatory hawks who are only in their position because their stellar record and vast aviation experience could not be contained within the private sector. They are the blessing, which we are unable to count.
It's probably why they only allow applicants who have had no more than two aircraft accidents for which they were at fault. And who coulnd't make it in the private sector.
And apparently, can't match socks.
#89
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,403
You mean the friendly aviation administration? "Hi, we're from the FAA, and we're here to help you?" Those guys?
Salt of the earth. They'd give you the shirt off their back, or the unmatched socks off their feet.
They are the Jedi warriors of the aviation safety commuity; regulatory hawks who are only in their position because their stellar record and vast aviation experience could not be contained within the private sector. They are the blessing, which we are unable to count.
It's probably why they only allow applicants who have had no more than two aircraft accidents for which they were at fault. And who coulnd't make it in the private sector.
And apparently, can't match socks.
Salt of the earth. They'd give you the shirt off their back, or the unmatched socks off their feet.
They are the Jedi warriors of the aviation safety commuity; regulatory hawks who are only in their position because their stellar record and vast aviation experience could not be contained within the private sector. They are the blessing, which we are unable to count.
It's probably why they only allow applicants who have had no more than two aircraft accidents for which they were at fault. And who coulnd't make it in the private sector.
And apparently, can't match socks.
#90
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