Breaking Training Contract Help
09-01-2018, 02:59 PM
#42
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by pugpilot
I'd really like to know more about the operation. What the type rating was, and specifically - did both pilots require a type rating for the insurance or the ops specs of the operation.
The contract could be unenforceable for lack of consideration. (this also applies to promissory notes)
If the company/airline/operation requires (by their own choosing) that both pilots be trained to a certain standard...then the training is not for your benefit, but for the benefit of the company.
Call a lawyer that specializes in business contracts.
The contract could be unenforceable for lack of consideration. (this also applies to promissory notes)
If the company/airline/operation requires (by their own choosing) that both pilots be trained to a certain standard...then the training is not for your benefit, but for the benefit of the company.
Call a lawyer that specializes in business contracts.
Few questions that people asked, NO it is not a jet type, Turboprop type rating. also, some say its easy to say no and walk away but when you had 600 bucks in the bank and walking away was not an option otherwise I wouldn't have enough money to stay afloat until I found another job and had to travel back. So, it was a situation I couldn't say no at that point. I do have some records like their advertisement on their website for the contract being 18 months. Also when they put a new job posting 4 months after I got hired (When they said it changed) they still advertised 18 months. Also, when I upgraded to captain on a smaller aircraft (no type needed) about 5 months after is started, i kept flying that since they hired new guys on the bigger plane and I have not flown it in almost 5 months. The contract for the small plane is 12 months.
Yes I shouldn't have signed it and said no but when you spent all your money to get there and turned down other jobs because what they promised and said as well as used all resources to get there, I couldn't back-out because I would have to wait few weeks to find another job and wouldn't have the funds for that.IF they were upfront, I wouldn't have even came as I had other job offers including flying Leajets but came here because what they promised and what was advertised.
I did mention it to them when they gave me the contract and told them it shouldn't be like this and they didn't care. Typical bait and switch. Not to mention guy before me 1 month before had the regular 18 month contract and half the contract amount $ I had.
09-01-2018, 04:15 PM
#43
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,003
What the "other guy" had is irrelevant.
He didn't sign your contract. You did.
Whether it's a "jet" type rating is irrelevant.
You signed a contract. Whether 18 months or 2.5 years, did the contract not spell it out? Were you not aware of what you were signing?
I have walked away from jobs with zero in the bank. You could, too. You chose to sign the contract, you agreed to the commitment.
Your assertion now is that you were type rated in the airplane, but are not flying the airplane. Your contract was for the type rating, and did not specify that you were guaranteed to fly the airplane, correct?
Do what you agreed. If you agreed to work for a period of time, do that. If you can't do that, pay it out, and move on. Done.
He didn't sign your contract. You did.
Whether it's a "jet" type rating is irrelevant.
You signed a contract. Whether 18 months or 2.5 years, did the contract not spell it out? Were you not aware of what you were signing?
I have walked away from jobs with zero in the bank. You could, too. You chose to sign the contract, you agreed to the commitment.
Your assertion now is that you were type rated in the airplane, but are not flying the airplane. Your contract was for the type rating, and did not specify that you were guaranteed to fly the airplane, correct?
Do what you agreed. If you agreed to work for a period of time, do that. If you can't do that, pay it out, and move on. Done.
09-07-2018, 09:48 PM
#44
Captain who?
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Position: Backseat
Posts: 47
I will chime on here after reading this entire thread. Alot of good info.
I too am going through something similar as far as a training contract. Hired with the company a year ago I was told to sign a 12 month 14.5K training contract for x dollars a year. Yet no training was given. This would have never held up if I breached since nothing was spent on me. But I did so because I trusted the aircraft owner from doing previous business with him.
Was told in 6 months I would be considered for PIC type. (4th full type) I was given a slot and a class date. 1 week prior to class, they cancelled it on me because the airplane was "too busy" with trips. Fast forward 6 more months and I am standing in my hotel room at CAE in DFW with a new contract. 23k for 12 months of service pro rated, but nothing about the pay. I felt like something was fishy here but I signed it and sent it back in. (I was wrong here).
PIC typed now, making SIC pay with PIC duties. Pt 91 flying last year with 2 pilots and no schedule. This year we are 91/135 with still 2 pilots and no schedule. I will be home only 6 days this month of September!
Now I am being offered a job with six figures and im only 2 months into the current contract. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place with a bad feeling in your gut. Will the new guy pay the management company off? Maybe, who knows? Yes, I want to jump ship because I am a disgruntled employee.
But my integrity and reputation is everything to me because in this industry, It is about who you know. And aviation IS such a small world.
I too am going through something similar as far as a training contract. Hired with the company a year ago I was told to sign a 12 month 14.5K training contract for x dollars a year. Yet no training was given. This would have never held up if I breached since nothing was spent on me. But I did so because I trusted the aircraft owner from doing previous business with him.
Was told in 6 months I would be considered for PIC type. (4th full type) I was given a slot and a class date. 1 week prior to class, they cancelled it on me because the airplane was "too busy" with trips. Fast forward 6 more months and I am standing in my hotel room at CAE in DFW with a new contract. 23k for 12 months of service pro rated, but nothing about the pay. I felt like something was fishy here but I signed it and sent it back in. (I was wrong here).
PIC typed now, making SIC pay with PIC duties. Pt 91 flying last year with 2 pilots and no schedule. This year we are 91/135 with still 2 pilots and no schedule. I will be home only 6 days this month of September!
Now I am being offered a job with six figures and im only 2 months into the current contract. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place with a bad feeling in your gut. Will the new guy pay the management company off? Maybe, who knows? Yes, I want to jump ship because I am a disgruntled employee.
But my integrity and reputation is everything to me because in this industry, It is about who you know. And aviation IS such a small world.
Last edited by Fookz92; 09-07-2018 at 09:52 PM. Reason: grammar
09-08-2018, 06:03 PM
#45
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,457
Originally Posted by Fookz92
I will chime on here after reading this entire thread. Alot of good info.
I too am going through something similar as far as a training contract. Hired with the company a year ago I was told to sign a 12 month 14.5K training contract for x dollars a year. Yet no training was given. This would have never held up if I breached since nothing was spent on me. But I did so because I trusted the aircraft owner from doing previous business with him.
Was told in 6 months I would be considered for PIC type. (4th full type) I was given a slot and a class date. 1 week prior to class, they cancelled it on me because the airplane was "too busy" with trips. Fast forward 6 more months and I am standing in my hotel room at CAE in DFW with a new contract. 23k for 12 months of service pro rated, but nothing about the pay. I felt like something was fishy here but I signed it and sent it back in. (I was wrong here).
PIC typed now, making SIC pay with PIC duties. Pt 91 flying last year with 2 pilots and no schedule. This year we are 91/135 with still 2 pilots and no schedule. I will be home only 6 days this month of September!
Now I am being offered a job with six figures and im only 2 months into the current contract. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place with a bad feeling in your gut. Will the new guy pay the management company off? Maybe, who knows? Yes, I want to jump ship because I am a disgruntled employee.
But my integrity and reputation is everything to me because in this industry, It is about who you know. And aviation IS such a small world.
I too am going through something similar as far as a training contract. Hired with the company a year ago I was told to sign a 12 month 14.5K training contract for x dollars a year. Yet no training was given. This would have never held up if I breached since nothing was spent on me. But I did so because I trusted the aircraft owner from doing previous business with him.
Was told in 6 months I would be considered for PIC type. (4th full type) I was given a slot and a class date. 1 week prior to class, they cancelled it on me because the airplane was "too busy" with trips. Fast forward 6 more months and I am standing in my hotel room at CAE in DFW with a new contract. 23k for 12 months of service pro rated, but nothing about the pay. I felt like something was fishy here but I signed it and sent it back in. (I was wrong here).
PIC typed now, making SIC pay with PIC duties. Pt 91 flying last year with 2 pilots and no schedule. This year we are 91/135 with still 2 pilots and no schedule. I will be home only 6 days this month of September!
Now I am being offered a job with six figures and im only 2 months into the current contract. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place with a bad feeling in your gut. Will the new guy pay the management company off? Maybe, who knows? Yes, I want to jump ship because I am a disgruntled employee.
But my integrity and reputation is everything to me because in this industry, It is about who you know. And aviation IS such a small world.
Basic UCC/contract law stuff.
09-19-2018, 08:52 AM
#47
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,003
Originally Posted by Fookz92
PIC typed now, making SIC pay with PIC duties. Pt 91 flying last year with 2 pilots and no schedule. This year we are 91/135 with still 2 pilots and no schedule. I will be home only 6 days this month of September!
Now I am being offered a job with six figures and im only 2 months into the current contract. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place with a bad feeling in your gut. Will the new guy pay the management company off? Maybe, who knows? Yes, I want to jump ship because I am a disgruntled employee.
But my integrity and reputation is everything to me because in this industry, It is about who you know. And aviation IS such a small world.
Now I am being offered a job with six figures and im only 2 months into the current contract. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place with a bad feeling in your gut. Will the new guy pay the management company off? Maybe, who knows? Yes, I want to jump ship because I am a disgruntled employee.
But my integrity and reputation is everything to me because in this industry, It is about who you know. And aviation IS such a small world.
I've had numerous occasions when I've been offered a fantastic job, but had committed to the then-current employer. The commitments were nothing more than a handshake in most cases; my word that I'd give them the time upon which we agreed. My word is good because I live by it.
When the job offer came in, I told the prospective employer, as I always do, "I appreciate the offer and hope you'll keep me in mind. I have promised this employer, and I won't do it to them, as I wouldn't do it to you." The prospective employer has always appreciated my position, and some of the job offers remained on the table, others went away.
On several occasions, I called up the former offer and asked if it was still available. Not only was it available, I was at work a few days later. Integrity counts.
09-19-2018, 08:55 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,248
Originally Posted by klondike
Dear JohnBurke,
You sound like a real first class Dudley-do-Right.
My compliments to you.
K
You sound like a real first class Dudley-do-Right.
My compliments to you.
K
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2qqg9QNK0B8
09-19-2018, 01:34 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 233
" But my integrity and reputation is everything to me.."
I am sorry to say it...NO it is not.
Even in the depths of the "No Hiring" period and with no income...Many of us REFUSED to even entertain the IDEA of a Training Contract / Bond of any sort.
That Sir, is Integrity.
In the current Market, to submit to this, indicates naivete', youth, and general ignorance of the world ahead of oneself.
You further indicate that you KNEW you were doing something less than intelligent yet, did it anyway. (?)
Because, " You we're Told? "
HMMM ?
Here can be your moment of growth and acknowledgement:
> It was stupid.
> You know it.
> You own it.
> You honor your Contract.
> You grow Older and Wiser.
If you can handle the above...Good For You. As well as "Good Luck" with the rest of Life's Journey.
The Best Thing?
Hopefully, We ALL get to Live and Learn from our mistakes. No matter how old we are.
( Well, at least 40% of us do. )
STK
I am sorry to say it...NO it is not.
Even in the depths of the "No Hiring" period and with no income...Many of us REFUSED to even entertain the IDEA of a Training Contract / Bond of any sort.
That Sir, is Integrity.
In the current Market, to submit to this, indicates naivete', youth, and general ignorance of the world ahead of oneself.
You further indicate that you KNEW you were doing something less than intelligent yet, did it anyway. (?)
Because, " You we're Told? "
HMMM ?
Here can be your moment of growth and acknowledgement:
> It was stupid.
> You know it.
> You own it.
> You honor your Contract.
> You grow Older and Wiser.
If you can handle the above...Good For You. As well as "Good Luck" with the rest of Life's Journey.
The Best Thing?
Hopefully, We ALL get to Live and Learn from our mistakes. No matter how old we are.
( Well, at least 40% of us do. )
STK
Last edited by Stimpy the Kat; 09-19-2018 at 02:01 PM.
09-19-2018, 02:11 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,172
Well, every pilot who flew for Uncle Sam signed a contract, so I wouldn’t be so down on it. But, they got something in return—a career. Signing a contract to fly a piston at a 135 operator is pretty much something for nothing.
GF
GF
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