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Old 08-06-2018, 03:54 PM   #1  
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Default PRIA

Had a rather aggravating issue with scheduling last week. After being pulled from a trip I inquired how our contracts rules for displacement did not apply to my situation. Response was “it’s our policy” when requesting for contract ref that disputed my understanding. While being adamant but not loud or profane I insisted I disagreed and would contact the union to file a grievance. Not necessarily smart to have said that to scheduling I know.
Next day a call from the CP with summary of the call resulted in being told I was arguing for again insisting on an specific point of reference in our contract. 15 mins later I received a email to report to a disciplinary hearing next week.
Question for the group is will something like this end up on my PRIA as reading the online ref says no, but some I’ve talked to say it may.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:04 PM   #2  
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That's not really the purpose or scope of PRIA, but your training records do become available. Disciplinary action may be, but most employers prefer to disclose the minimum (often summed up as yes we would hire him again, or no, we would not) do to the potential liability of saying too much.

You didn't indicate the type of operation for which you're flying, but it sounds like you have minimal experience in an airline (or union) environment.

Don't argue with scheduling. Dont' ask them for contract references. You ask the union and your steward for that. If this is an ongoing problem, then grieve it, discuss it, see if it can be addressed via your union. Unless you're a steward (and it sounds like you're not), this is not the windmill at which you should tilt.

Do not tell scheduling that you'll be filing a grievance. Scheduling does not work for and is not associated with the union. They have nothing to do with your grievance. It sounds like you're trying to threaten them, push them, throw your weight around. Don't do that.

You made a point of saying that you didn't get loud or profane. That should go without saying; it shouldn't be a remote consideration, but your having said so makes it sound like you were doing them a favor or acting out of character. You should never be getting loud or profane with the schedulers. Thank them for their time, and contact your steward. You have representation, if you have a contract: use it.

Grievances will either be approved, or taken to settlement (or arbitration, if warranted). That's for your representatives to handle.

If you've garnered the attention of the chief pilot, this should be a red flag for you to step back a bit. If your contract has relief for the trip from which you were pulled (ie, if you should get the value of the trip time, rig, etc), then grieve that if actionable, or move on if it isn't.
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Old 08-07-2018, 07:50 AM   #3  
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Whatever you do, when you meet the CP, be humble, admit your mistakes and don’t take your scheduling “act” there. I advised a probationary pilot who got crossways with a captain the same thing, knowing his hearing, which as he was on probation I couldn’t be there, wasn’t gooing to go well. He walked in, told the base CP, the captain was a problem. It ended quickly.

A disciplinary hearing resulted you eating a slice of humble pie probably won’t be a PRIA item, termination for cause will be.

GF
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Old 08-07-2018, 08:36 AM   #4  
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I don't know what airline you work for, or what union represents you...but I wouldn't go into any disciplinary hearing without representation.

An email for a disciplinary hearing? Simply because you asked for a contract reference?

There's either more to the story than shared, or or the company is attempting to scare or intimidate you. Perhaps a little of both. If the scheduler "wrote you up" then the CP is probably obligated to "act" in some fashion.

RLA basically means "fly and grieve it". I don't see any issue with telling a scheduler you disagree and are going to file a grievance; does not sound like you refused anything so I'm not sure what they could tag you with other than possible insubordination (a VERY large catch-all).

Go in, be polite, don't assign blame, answer asked questions directly with no editorializing, take responsibility for what you said/did and admit you POSSIBLY could have handled the situation differently, and by all means if you rep tells you to keep your mouth shut DO IT.
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Old 08-07-2018, 06:12 PM   #5  
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I’d think you’re in the clear with PRIA. While a very few companies will send 100 pages of records, most send a computer print out with events, dates and pass/fail.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bscott58d View Post
Had a rather aggravating issue with scheduling last week. After being pulled from a trip I inquired how our contracts rules for displacement did not apply to my situation. Response was “it’s our policy” when requesting for contract ref that disputed my understanding. While being adamant but not loud or profane I insisted I disagreed and would contact the union to file a grievance. Not necessarily smart to have said that to scheduling I know.
Next day a call from the CP with summary of the call resulted in being told I was arguing for again insisting on an specific point of reference in our contract. 15 mins later I received a email to report to a disciplinary hearing next week.
Question for the group is will something like this end up on my PRIA as reading the online ref says no, but some I’ve talked to say it may.
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Old 08-08-2018, 11:25 AM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
Whatever you do, when you meet the CP, be humble, admit your mistakes and don’t take your scheduling “act” there. I advised a probationary pilot who got crossways with a captain the same thing, knowing his hearing, which as he was on probation I couldn’t be there, wasn’t gooing to go well. He walked in, told the base CP, the captain was a problem. It ended quickly.

A disciplinary hearing resulted you eating a slice of humble pie probably won’t be a PRIA item, termination for cause will be.

GF
Non-flying discipline issues are not supposed to be part of PRIA, unless they result in a termination.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:52 AM   #7  
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From: https://www.faa.gov/pilots/lic_cert/pria/requesting/

PRIA Office Procedures for the Air Carrier



(c) Disciplinary Actions that are unrelated to a termination or release from employment, and have been imposed on a pilot by the employer, should only be reported if they involve the individual’s performance as a pilot, and have not been subsequently overturned. Other employment related actions that have nothing to do with the pilot’s flight duties resulting in a disciplinary action, but not discharge or termination, should not be reported.
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Old 08-14-2018, 02:47 PM   #8  
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If you received an email directing you to a disciplinary hearing, you should FIRST call your union representative, and fully brief your rep on the whole story. Then ask your rep how to respond to the email, with the basis being you will only be attending the hearing WITH your union representative present. The rep might take it from there, to find a time both the CP and rep are available. Or might direct you to reply via email or voice to your CP.
Under NO circumstance should you John Wayne it and attend the hearing without your rep. That is the rep's job. I have been told in the hypothetical that often a rep can start with the CP, with you not in the room, and alleviate most minor problems before you even enter. That might be Company/Union specific, but a rep is there to represent and protect you. They should be trained for this.
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:40 PM   #9  
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What he said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipdanno View Post
If you received an email directing you to a disciplinary hearing, you should FIRST call your union representative, and fully brief your rep on the whole story. Then ask your rep how to respond to the email, with the basis being you will only be attending the hearing WITH your union representative present. The rep might take it from there, to find a time both the CP and rep are available. Or might direct you to reply via email or voice to your CP.
Under NO circumstance should you John Wayne it and attend the hearing without your rep. That is the rep's job. I have been told in the hypothetical that often a rep can start with the CP, with you not in the room, and alleviate most minor problems before you even enter. That might be Company/Union specific, but a rep is there to represent and protect you. They should be trained for this.
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