Age 65 restrictions
03-09-2021, 10:26 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 747 Captain (Ret,)
Posts: 804
Age 65 restrictions
Under current rules, is there any restrictions against an over age 65 pilot EXCEPT for FAR 121 flying? I have been looking in FAR 135.2 and FAR 125, but cannot find anything.
Joe
Joe
03-09-2021, 11:59 AM
#2
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,232
IIRC...
There's a limit of age 70 for 135/91k, but it only applies to large operators which conduct a certain number of legs each year.
Much like the original age 60 limit, it was politically engineered by managers of one company, Netjets. Coincidentally, only Netjets is large enough to trigger the operations threshold. So basically a special carve-out to get rid of older, expensive Netjets pilots.
With that said, maybe there needs to be an age limit for commercial ops but it should be applied evenly across the board. Or maybe just different rest rules, I'm sure many 70 year-old pilots who got a good nights sleep in their own bed in their own time zone are at least as alert as I am for a dawn report six time zones east of where I was the day before.
There's a limit of age 70 for 135/91k, but it only applies to large operators which conduct a certain number of legs each year.
Much like the original age 60 limit, it was politically engineered by managers of one company, Netjets. Coincidentally, only Netjets is large enough to trigger the operations threshold. So basically a special carve-out to get rid of older, expensive Netjets pilots.
With that said, maybe there needs to be an age limit for commercial ops but it should be applied evenly across the board. Or maybe just different rest rules, I'm sure many 70 year-old pilots who got a good nights sleep in their own bed in their own time zone are at least as alert as I am for a dawn report six time zones east of where I was the day before.
03-09-2021, 02:56 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 459
Originally Posted by rickair7777
IIRC...
There's a limit of age 70 for 135/91k, but it only applies to large operators which conduct a certain number of legs each year.
Much like the original age 60 limit, it was politically engineered by managers of one company, Netjets. Coincidentally, only Netjets is large enough to trigger the operations threshold. So basically a special carve-out to get rid of older, expensive Netjets pilots.
With that said, maybe there needs to be an age limit for commercial ops but it should be applied evenly across the board. Or maybe just different rest rules, I'm sure many 70 year-old pilots who got a good nights sleep in their own bed in their own time zone are at least as alert as I am for a dawn report six time zones east of where I was the day before.
There's a limit of age 70 for 135/91k, but it only applies to large operators which conduct a certain number of legs each year.
Much like the original age 60 limit, it was politically engineered by managers of one company, Netjets. Coincidentally, only Netjets is large enough to trigger the operations threshold. So basically a special carve-out to get rid of older, expensive Netjets pilots.
With that said, maybe there needs to be an age limit for commercial ops but it should be applied evenly across the board. Or maybe just different rest rules, I'm sure many 70 year-old pilots who got a good nights sleep in their own bed in their own time zone are at least as alert as I am for a dawn report six time zones east of where I was the day before.
03-09-2021, 03:21 PM
#4
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
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Originally Posted by EMAW
is that actually regulatory? Or is it self-imposed by NetJets (EJM). Don’t know about legs, but they are no longer the largest based on hrs flown according to ARGUS. At least in 2019 they were about half of GAMA signature. Now that wheels UP Has acquired Gama, DPJ, and TMC, I think the gap has grown. And Gama has at least a pilot or two in their mid 70s.
I have no idea what regs GAMA falls under, or how their flying is accounted for. the legislation was specifically targeted at Netjets.
Here's an article on it, confirms what I thought unless something changed since it was published
https://www.flyingmag.com/netjets-pi...ry-retirement/.
03-10-2021, 06:34 AM
#5
777 - ret
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Position: Waco CG-4 center seat
Posts: 863
Originally Posted by rickair7777
I thought it was a regulatory compromise (Netjets wanted 65). Actually I thought it was legislative, which of course supersedes the regulatory process... congress injecting itself rather than letting the FAA take action (or not).
I have no idea what regs GAMA falls under, or how their flying is accounted for. the legislation was specifically targeted at Netjets.
Here's an article on it, confirms what I thought unless something changed since it was published
https://www.flyingmag.com/netjets-pilots-union-accepts-age-70-mandatory-retirement/.
I have no idea what regs GAMA falls under, or how their flying is accounted for. the legislation was specifically targeted at Netjets.
Here's an article on it, confirms what I thought unless something changed since it was published
https://www.flyingmag.com/netjets-pilots-union-accepts-age-70-mandatory-retirement/.
03-10-2021, 10:33 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 459
NetJets has a mandatory age of 70. However, I don’t think it is part of a regulation or government mandate. I didn’t see it in the table of contents in the FAA reauthorization bill of 2018. I think it’s self imposed. But I could be wrong if anyone can find an official reference I’d be interested to read it.
The only regulatory requirement I know of is age 65 for ICAO for international flying, and you can’t pair 2 pilots that are more than 60.
We at Wheels Up Aviation (formerly GAMA) are 135 and I’m sure we have at least one pilot over 70. I also worked at Avantair and at least at the time they, as a 91k operator, didn’t have an age limit either. But that was a few years ago.
I know limits were proposed, just don’t know if they passed.
The only regulatory requirement I know of is age 65 for ICAO for international flying, and you can’t pair 2 pilots that are more than 60.
We at Wheels Up Aviation (formerly GAMA) are 135 and I’m sure we have at least one pilot over 70. I also worked at Avantair and at least at the time they, as a 91k operator, didn’t have an age limit either. But that was a few years ago.
I know limits were proposed, just don’t know if they passed.
Last edited by EMAW; 03-10-2021 at 11:01 AM.
02-21-2022, 04:14 PM
#8
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,003
Originally Posted by ReserveCA
change it!
Do you hope to change it by demanding it here? Or is there an ulterior motive, like dragging irrelevant politics into the matter? You chose to make this a political statement.
There is no vehicle attached to the age 65 restriction which presently enables you to fly beyond 65 under Part 121, with a cognitive screening, or any other metric. You want it changed? What are you doing to change it?
Posting on a web board does NOT count, and is ineffective and irrelevant. What are you doing to change the regulation?
02-21-2022, 05:46 PM
#9
Slave
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Position: Hot tub
Posts: 1,344
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
The regulation is clear. The means to change it is clear. The means to change it does not include lobbying on a web board.
Do you hope to change it by demanding it here? Or is there an ulterior motive, like dragging irrelevant politics into the matter? You chose to make this a political statement.
There is no vehicle attached to the age 65 restriction which presently enables you to fly beyond 65 under Part 121, with a cognitive screening, or any other metric. You want it changed? What are you doing to change it?
Posting on a web board does NOT count, and is ineffective and irrelevant. What are you doing to change the regulation?
Do you hope to change it by demanding it here? Or is there an ulterior motive, like dragging irrelevant politics into the matter? You chose to make this a political statement.
There is no vehicle attached to the age 65 restriction which presently enables you to fly beyond 65 under Part 121, with a cognitive screening, or any other metric. You want it changed? What are you doing to change it?
Posting on a web board does NOT count, and is ineffective and irrelevant. What are you doing to change the regulation?
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