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-   -   take off and landing currency part 121 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/aviation-law/31541-take-off-landing-currency-part-121-a.html)

USMC3197 09-25-2008 12:03 AM

take off and landing currency part 121
 
Well... This problem doesn't come often in the 121 world but I am getting close. I tried looking in the far/aim for 121 regs on takeoff and landing currency. Couldn't find it, do we still need to maintain 3 T/O day and night landings under 121 ops? Where is the REG on that for 121...

todd1200 09-25-2008 05:38 AM

If you're an FO I don't think you have to worry about it, since the reg applies to acting as PIC.

de727ups 09-25-2008 07:45 AM

The part 91 regs still apply to part 121 flying. It's three landings in 90 days.

rickair7777 09-25-2008 08:07 AM


Originally Posted by todd1200 (Post 468161)
If you're an FO I don't think you have to worry about it, since the reg applies to acting as PIC.

Carefule, trhere's some confusion here...

Under 121, both PIC and SIC must make 3 takeoff's and landings within the past 90 days... day, night, IMC, or VMC the conditions don't matter. This will provide 121 landing and IFR currency.

Technically the 91 rule does not apply, since 121 pilots do not have to do the night landings for night currency.

However...a current 121 pilot who flies GA under part 91 MUST meet all the usual part 91 rules. You can be 100% airline current but zero% GA current.

de727ups 09-25-2008 08:52 AM

I guess my point is 91 rules apply to all flying unless superceeded by another reg. Examples are PIC emergency authority, careless and wreckless operation, ect. To answer the guys question, though, see 121.439 and 61.57

III Corps 09-25-2008 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by todd1200 (Post 468161)
If you're an FO I don't think you have to worry about it, since the reg applies to acting as PIC.


Don't think so... a few years ago when United's 747 lost an engine plodding out of SFO, they came very close to making a big mark on the hill. It was later found that the F/O who was flying had only kept currency by doing his landings in the sim. As I remember, the FAA said the sim could be used but it was not to be used continually for currency. More than a few CPs in various airlines had to actually go and (GASP!! fly a trip.

TonyC 09-25-2008 11:40 AM


Originally Posted by daniel0265 (Post 468100)

Well... This problem doesn't come often in the 121 world but I am getting close. I tried looking in the far/aim for 121 regs on takeoff and landing currency. Couldn't find it, do we still need to maintain 3 T/O day and night landings under 121 ops? Where is the REG on that for 121...


3 Takeoffs and Landings, yes, Day and Night, NO

What you're looking for (or should be looking for) is "Pilot qualification: Recent experience."




Originally Posted by todd1200 (Post 468161)

If you're an FO I don't think you have to worry about it, since the reg applies to acting as PIC.


This kind of stuff is really much too important to just "think" about. Can you imagine the trouble a pilot, or an air carrier, could get into by taking your advice, and learning that it is absolutely incorrect? The thing is, it's not really that hard to consult the actual Code of Federal Regulations that we are supposed to know and follow.

The Code of Federal Regulations



Here's an excerpt:
121.439 Pilot qualification: Recent experience.
(a) No certificate holder may use any person nor may any person serve as a required pilot flight crewmember, unless within the preceding 90 days, that person has made at least three takeoffs and landings in the type airplane in which that person is to serve.

Originally Posted by III Corps (Post 468338)

As I remember, the FAA said the sim could be used but it was not to be used continually for currency.




"continually" ... hmm ... now, there's a technical term that I just don't recall having read in conjunction with recency of experience requirements. Again, "thinking" and "memory" aren't always the best guides. Let's continue the above excerpt where I left off:
The takeoffs and landings required by this paragraph may be performed in a visual simulator approved under 121.407 to include takeoff and landing maneuvers.
That's pretty plain and simple. The paragraph goes on to describe how a person who loses currency can reestablish currency in the airplane, or an approved simulator. There is nothing to suggest that using the simulator "continually" is even discouraged, much less prohibited.

Mind you, we're not discussing what is prudent here, or what the NTSB might have recommended -- we're talking about the rules.







.

USMC3197 09-25-2008 11:41 AM

Yeah I just care about 121 flying not GA. So if I understand you all, I am good to go to fly 121 if I go over 90 days? Yes I am an FO.

USMC3197 09-25-2008 11:43 AM


Originally Posted by TonyC (Post 468353)
3 Takeoffs and Landings, yes, Day and Night, NO

What you're looking for (or should be looking for) is "Pilot qualification: Recent experience."





This kind of stuff is really much too important to just "think" about. Can you imagine the trouble a pilot, or an air carrier, could get into by taking your advice, and learning that it is absolutely incorrect? The thing is, it's not really that hard to consult the actual Code of Federal Regulations that we are supposed to know and follow.

The Code of Federal Regulations




Here's an excerpt:
121.439 Pilot qualification: Recent experience.
(a) No certificate holder may use any person nor may any person serve as a required pilot flight crewmember, unless within the preceding 90 days, that person has made at least three takeoffs and landings in the type airplane in which that person is to serve.




"continually" ... hmm ... now, there's a technical term that I just don't recall having read in conjunction with recency of experience requirements. Again, "thinking" and "memory" aren't always the best guides. Let's continue the above excerpt where I left off:
The takeoffs and landings required by this paragraph may be performed in a visual simulator approved under 121.407 to include takeoff and landing maneuvers.
That's pretty plain and simple. The paragraph goes on to describe how a person who loses currency can reestablish currency in the airplane, or an approved simulator. There is nothing to suggest that using the simulator "continually" is even discouraged, much less prohibited.

Mind you, we're not discussing what is prudent here, or what the NTSB might have recommended -- we're talking about the rules.







.

Geeze... OK i will just call the training department when that time gets near. Thanks for all the help though guys, seems like this is just one huge GRAY area.

121.439 seems to be the answer but I will just ask the company.

TonyC 09-25-2008 11:46 AM


Originally Posted by daniel0265 (Post 468354)

Yeah I just care about 121 flying not GA. So if I understand you all, I am good to go to fly 121 if I go over 90 days? Yes I am an FO.


I realize you were typing when I posted (and you may be posting while I'm typing), but I want to make sure we're clear here.

Your profile says CRJ-200 -- I'm pretty certain the FO is a "required pilot flight crewmember." As such, you must have 3 takeoffs and 3 landings within the past 90 days. (No day/night requirement -- anything works)







.


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