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Ramp Check Question

Old 03-04-2009, 08:24 AM
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A friend of mine was ramp checked in Louisiana on Saturday. During the process of the ramp check she could not locate her medical. The FAA Agent gave her his card and advised her to call her and fax a copy of it to him once she finds it...and warned her against flying home without the medical.
She found the medical about two hours later burried in her baggage. She faxed the medical to the agent as well as leaving a VM advising that she found it and faxed it to him. She also dropped a NASA form, basically saying that she did not properly organize her flight bag and placed her medical in her travel luggage and was not able to produce the medical upon request.
So I have two questions.....first, it appears as though the FAA is going to atleast send her a letter about this, as they have not returned her call and they have called other regarding this matter. The FBO that she rented the aircraft from was contacted on Sunday by the FAA (prior to her returning the aircraft). They asked if they had a copy of her medical and if they knew that she had been flying "illegally" without her medical. Once she returned the A/C Sunday afternoon, the FBO told her that she was not allowed to rent A/C from them any longer, as she has violated a FAR. Is the FAA allowed to discuss open investigations with third parties?

Second question, will the NASA form help her in this situation? I believe she is okay, even if she had to go to an NTSB appeal. The fact that she did have it in the aircraft, she just could not produce it.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:58 AM
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FAA is not allowed to discuss open investigations with other parties. Now is the time for the gal to contact the FSDO Manager and get this put to rest immediately.

And if that doesn't work, she needs to get an aviation lawyer immediately.
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:14 AM
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Legally I think she should be fine. The FAR only says you need to have the medical with you. it does not say anything about needing to be organized. If she is a member of AOPA and pays for the legal protection she should call them and get some official advice from people who know their stuff.
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:46 AM
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Thankfully she is a member of AOPA and the Legal Plan. She did call the Legal Helpline and she was told that agent can go either way with it. If he wants to he can argue that because she could not produce when he was there, the case can be made that she was flying without it onboard. The fact that she produced it later may not work as she could have (hypothetically) can a friend fly it to her from home or whereever, bottom line she did not produce it so how is he to know that she actually had it.
I figured that they should not be speaking with others regarding an open investigation. Just didnt know if they were actually barred from doing so.

She is placing calls to attorney's from the AOPA panel of attorney's now. The first one she spoke with felt like the NASA form would be argued against by the FAA as this was not a flying incident, but rather a more adminstrative type incident. She is calling around to other attorney's today. I always thought that unless the incident was "intentional" or part of a crime.....the NASA form was your one freebie.
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jedinein View Post
FAA is not allowed to discuss open investigations with other parties. Now is the time for the gal to contact the FSDO Manager and get this put to rest immediately.

And if that doesn't work, she needs to get an aviation lawyer immediately.
Agreed. Except I'd get the lawyer first. It's too easy to disregard the complaint of someone under investigation.

Of course, we don't really know what the Inspector said to the FBO, but if it was to intimidate the FBO into denying the pilot flying privileges and not legitimate investigative inquiry, sound like something improper that should be brought to the FSDO Manager's attention through the right channels.
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Old 03-04-2009, 01:34 PM
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My guess is that the FAA might not pursue this beyond a stern lecture...obviously she had a held a valid medical, and it's reasonable to assume that she did in fact have it in her possession at the time of the incident.

But the FAR's require you to produce your license (and I assume your medical) on request, so her failure to produce it for whatever reason is a technical violation. If the Fed is a real big jerk, he might go forward with it.

A nasa form will probably not help...people have been violated for not having charts and manuals updated, and that has been held to be intentional on the premise that you have plenty of time to get your gear organized before coming to work.

Get legal advice, and hope for the best. With an attorney's concurrence you might just go to the FSDO, hat in hand, and try to talk them into dropping the whole thing.
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Old 03-04-2009, 04:12 PM
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First of all folks, we definately do not have the WHOLE story here. Any Inspector would be able to go into SPAS database and see that she has a valid medical. This person then goes onto say that she called and that her calls are being ignored? It might take more than a day for the Inspector to get back to her as I am sure he is busy looking at other issues as well. A "letter" is going out? what an LOI? (Letter of Investigation) so what, your not required to respond, it is just your chance to explain formally or provide additional info to clear any unresolved questions.Or a Letter of Warning? I highly doubt an inspector would process this when that airman has a valid medical. She might get a talking too, but thats about it. Especially since she actually did end up having it in her posession. This not an uncommon situation.

2nd of all. You can file an ASAP or NASA form all day long, but if the inspector is there to witness the non-compliance, it does not matter. Worst case scenario is that she gets an LOW (Letter of Warning) which is only Administrative Action. I doubt it will even come to this.

Last edited by 74Green; 03-04-2009 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 03-04-2009, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
A nasa form will probably not help...people have been violated for not having charts and manuals updated, and that has been held to be intentional on the premise that you have plenty of time to get your gear organized before coming to work. .
File it anyway. There may or may not be an upside, but there is zero downside.
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:08 PM
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Here goes one for the books. I have been flying since 2001 and flying 121 for 15 months and I have never been ramped checked. Got all my trainig at a 141 school and the ONLY fed I ever met was a maintenance dude.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 74Green View Post
First of all folks, we definately do not have the WHOLE story here. Any Inspector would be able to go into SPAS database and see that she has a valid medical. This person then goes onto say that she called and that her calls are being ignored? It might take more than a day for the Inspector to get back to her as I am sure he is busy looking at other issues as well. A "letter" is going out? what an LOI? (Letter of Investigation) so what, your not required to respond, it is just your chance to explain formally or provide additional info to clear any unresolved questions.Or a Letter of Warning? I highly doubt an inspector would process this when that airman has a valid medical. She might get a talking too, but thats about it. Especially since she actually did end up having it in her posession. This not an uncommon situation.

2nd of all. You can file an ASAP or NASA form all day long, but if the inspector is there to witness the non-compliance, it does not matter. Worst case scenario is that she gets an LOW (Letter of Warning) which is only Administrative Action. I doubt it will even come to this.
You are partially incorrect and you contradict yourself in paragraphs 1 and 2.

Not only is it possible for the FAA to take certificate action against said offender, the probability is that the offender will get a letter of reprimand from the FAA placed in her regional file (for 2 years), and may face a suspension of her certificates. If she has any other incidents AT ALL, she is probably looking at a suspension from the regional director of whatever FSDO is in charge of the area or operation.

If she could not prove that she had her medical certificate on her at the time of the inspection, she is in violation of an FAR. The FAA does not take violation of FAR's lightly, no matter how silly they seem to you. Make no mistake, as silly as it sounds in the internet/database era, the FAA is old school, and they have to make a sacrificial lamb of someone every now and then.
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