Time logged improperly
 

Well I really have myself in a situation. I am still a low time pilot (450TT) and I got hired on by a small company that has a flight school and small 135 operation. Where I have screwed up is that in my origianal logbook I have incorectly logged some King Air 90 time as PIC. The guy I work for is old and not worried at all about logging time and he lets me fly the plane. The only time he flies is during take off, landing, and taxi whenever there is freight or people on the plane. I was aware of the reg that being the sole manipulator of the contorls you can log pic but didn't realize that it was only for pt 91 nor did I until recently realized that it was illegal for me to handle the controls during 135 flights as I have not taken a 135 checkride. So now I am trying to figure out what I can do to straighten this out in my log book as only about 1/3 of the time I logged I can actually log. As I read in here it is kind of important to have my first log book with all endorsements and signatures but seems it would be really sketchy haveing a whole bunch of flight crossed out. It is about 45hr of logged time that I am dealing with here. Thanks for the help I am really stressed over the situation.

I'd vote for a one line entry subtracting out all of the improper time with a short note in the memo field along the lines of "Correction - removed inadvertently entered flight time." If anyone ever notices and asks, just answer honestly about the whole situation and explain that this motivated you to become more familiar with the FAR's so as not to make a similar mistake.

We all get things wrong starting out - fix the problem and be honest if anyone questions it and I seriously doubt anyone will make an issue out of it (aside from the tools United used to have doing their interviewing).

whatever you do don't white out or erase or black out the flight times. This will make it look like your trying to hide something. I would probably do what bcrosier said or maybe someone else has a better idea. You can always ask a dpe for their opinion.

............repost

Thanks for the imput. Part of my concern about asking someone is also not knowing just how big of a deal the whole handeling the controls during 135 operation is? I don't know if it is not allowed but common for this to handle, just can't log the flight time, or if this is considered a big screw up. I guess for comparison going down the interstate in your car at 74 is illegal but many do it and no one really worries about it but drinking beer while going down the road is a whole other story.

So who's to know it was a part 135 flight? Do you have a column in your logbook for Part 135? Just treat it like it was under Part 91. I betcha a lot of 4 stripes logged 1,000's of hours as PIC in Barons in riding right seat on check runs in the 70's and 80's.

I have been doing a bunch or reading for myself and was a little surprised what I found myself. Can anyone point me to any specfic regs that prevent me from handeling the controls during 135. What I have found so far leaves things a little unclear.


135.95:
No certificate holder may use the services of any person as an airman unless the person performing those services-
(a) Holds an appropriate and current airman certificate; and
(b) is qualified, under this chapter, for the operation for which the person is to be used


135.115
No pilot in command may allow any person to manipulate the flight controls of an aircraft during flight conducted under this part, nor may any person manipulate the controls during such flight unless that person is -
(a) A pilot employed by the certificate holder and qualified in the aircraft; or
(b) An authorized safety representative of the Administrator who has permission of the pilot in command, is qualified in the aircraft, and is checking flight operations


Isn't this difference a little unclear. I am on the payrole and have a multi-engine commercial rating with a high performance endorsement so I am qualified to fly the plane. Does this mean that I can handel the controls just not serve as eight a PIC or SIC since I have not had a checkride?

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I would agree. The good news is that it sounds like you have not used the erroneous time to apply for a rating or to get a job.

I would not line out all of the entries, just make a one-line "journal entry" as bcrosier suggested. In your correction entry, note all of the dates on which you logged bogus time.

You can handle the controls, and log dual if you are receiving instruction from a instructor. Do not log SIC or PIC until you have taken a checkride to do so. Good luck!

I had an argument about this with an FAA inspector once. I was at the time flying with a guy who had a twin on a 135 certificate. He frequently had charters which meant empty legs. While inspecting my logbook for my 135 pic checkout for the same company the FAA examiner, who was also the 135 POI , saw that I had logged around 9 months of PIC time in the aircraft. He berated me for padding my logbook and doing it illegally. His argument was that I was not checked out for the 135 and that passengers pay for the empty legs. My argument was that the airplane is not operated under the 135 certificate but was being operated part 91 and I was appropriately trained and rated to fly those flights and the passengers did not know or pay for whether the airplane was being relocated 1o0 miles back to the aircrafts base or 1000 miles anywhere else.

This was the one and only time in my 13 years in aviation that I won an argument with the FAA.

Yes the pax pay indirectly for empty legs, but that doesn't stop you from operating them under 91. 135 is only required if the pax or cargo are onboard.

Amazing that these local guys have so much latitude to make up their own rules. I suspect he was former military with no GA experience at all.

And sometimes inspectors are just wrong.

I was once in a conference we requested in response to a Letter of Investigation. At first I thought the two Inspectors were playing "good cop-bad cop" until it dawned on me that they really disagreed with each other on the substance of whether certain conduct was a violation. It was an interesting dynamic to watch and we ultimately left when I decided that we weren't getting anywhere and were better off letting them sort it out without us.

Don't be surprised at the latitude. Ultimately interpretation is for the FAA attorneys, the NTSB and the Courts. But the guys on the front line, whether it be FAA or your local police officer, interpret the rules every day. While some of these guys may be into power and abuse their authority, most are just trying to do their jobs the best they can.