coop77

I'm in the midst of applying to a few airlines, and I'm wondering what exactly needs to be disclosed and what doesn't. Some apps ask about "training failures", and I would think that since those records are not on file with the FAA (a MV, for example), they need not be disclosed. Do airlines share that information, or does the prospective employer only have access to the FAA records? Of course, many of you will say "just be honest and disclose everything", but if a record truly cannot be shared, why disclose it and open yourself up to questioning?

MatthewAMEL

Disclose everything.

If it's a moving violation, it'll show up during your NDR search. If it's a violation or LOI or something, it'll show up with your FAA records. If it's a checkride bust or line check failure or something, it'll show up during your PRIA check.

Disclosing it during the interview and turning it into a learning experience is WAY better than being pulled out of class and fired because you 'forgot' about that one time at band camp...

Ad Lib

Do your research on a law called the "Pilot Records Improvement Act." Basically your new employer will request a copy of your previous employers personnel file. While there might be some limitations about what is disclosed, the HR Dept at my former airline just took my entire file and dumped it in their photocopier. Training records certainly get forwarded, along with attendance and in my case they sent all my old background search info which included a traffic citation which had dropped off the NDR (glad I went the extra mile on disclosure).

My 100% recommendation is to be an open book... take ownership and explain what you learned from any mistakes.

The only person with a perfect file is someone who has not done a whole lot. Experience is a tough teacher. Your next employer will be more assured that you got your mistakes behind you.

P.S. Just noticed you said a "MV." Do you mean you needed additional training on a Maneuvers Evaluation, or was it a check ride bust? Getting an additional sim is not a "failure."

coop77

Thanks so much for the info. In my case, I've had two issues; one was a busted LOE, and the other, an MV (Maneuvers Validation (AQP)). I know the LOE has got to be on record, but being that the MV was a "training event", I'm sure that the only place it can be found is in the company records. The reason for my question, is that I spoke with an FAA guy recently who said that company records are confidential. Therefore, I had to wonder whether disclosing training info on an airline app was necessary. All airlines that I've applied to thus far, have asked about failing a "training" ride. My gut is telling me to open up and disclose ALL, but I'm wondering...are my chances at a major airline job pretty much shot in the current hiring environment due to those failures? Will multiple internal recs pull any weight to help my situation, or will these issues likely knock my app out of the mix before it even gets to that point?

coop77

Great recommendation, but do you think a pilot will ever get the opportunity to even "take ownership and explain what you learned from any mistakes" if their application shows previous failures?

AKASHA

This is not correct. A simple moving violation is NOT part of the NDR database. The NDR only contains information about drivers who have had their licenses revoked or suspended, or who have been convicted of serious traffic violations such as DUI.

In terms of the interview process, my unpopular advice is to disclose only that information which is available to the employer. Educate yourself on what that is and don't rely on the misinformation that you are likely to find on these forums. An interview for your dream job is not the time to lay out all your dirty laundry and break out all the skeletons in your closet.

coop77

Excellent advice. How exactly though does one find out what information is available to the potential employer? Take Delta for example. From what I'm reading on these forums, they will find absolutely anything and everything you've ever done. Do I disclose a failed "stage check" from my college days? An LOE where I was never handed a pink slip?

Cycle Pilot

You don't have to disclose a failed stage check or grad ride from college. Definitely disclose any FAA checkride failures. From your airline, disclose any line checks you may have failed and sim checks. The LOE would fall under this, but not the MV since that's a training event. Hope this helps.

rickair7777

Great Advice!

But only one problem...how do you know EXACTLY what is and is not available to airline employers? It would take a lot of research and not all of that info is readily available to the public.

If you are a typical pilot with maybe a busted checkride at one point and a speeding ticket or two over the years I believe honesty is the best policy.

If you fail to disclose something, and it DOES turn up on the background check here is what will happen...

You will interview, get a job offer, and accept. You will give notice to your old employer, and then report for training at your new job. Since not all new hires actually show up, airlines don't spend the money doing background checks until AFTER you stat training (the checks don't need to be completed until you fly the line, which will take a couple months). About two weeks into ground school, you will be pulled out of class, taken to a managers office and FIRED on the spot.

Now your old job is long gone, and you have been fired from an airline for lying about your background...you are almost certainly finished in 121 aviation before you even get started. Go get a night air ambulance job for $30K and start drinking heavily...you have a long way to go to age 65 or whenever you can collect social security.

If you have an extensive track record of problems (or a serious problem) in your past maybe you do need to try to figure out what info to disclose. But I would only go there if you are certain that disclosing the issue will keep you from getting hired. It's better to not get hired and try again at another company than get hired and then promptly fired.

Generally honesty is the best policy.

As to the original question FAA checkride failures and airline training failures will definitely get reported to new airline employers vie the PRIA process.

Thedude

PRIA is limited to 5 yrs back.