RNAV / course reversal question
03-14-2012, 11:51 PM
#1
Working weekends
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Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 2,384
RNAV / course reversal question
OK, maybe I need a fire suit for the flaming I will get. Silly IFR-101 question, but it came up. Adult mature discussion requested.
look at this approach plate
http://dtpp.myairplane.com/pdfs/SC-3/00226R17L.PDF
Is the holding pattern/course reversal MANDATORY at PUCIK. Assume I am inbound from San Antonio. MANDATORY, or can I hit PUCIK and track the approach inbound from PUCIK. Outside PUCIK, 3000 is the recommended altitude. MSA circle is 2600, so I am already above the MSA.
I don't "need" a course reversal I am already almost lined up. Plus, above MSA circle.
Assume night time, tower closed. Shooting the approach in IMC. No vectors. Houston Center can't paint me/give vectors. Again, altitude wise, I am not gonna hit anything.
Assume I self-descended from legal MEA (with ATC approval) upon penetrating MSA circle, to 3000 (again above MSA altitude). Now I am almost lined up with PUCIK, say 10 miles north of PUCIK. Late night, tired, not in the mood to do a course reversal/holding pattern.
Not a trick question, this scenario was discussed the other day with some of us. My contention is that altitude wise, I am complying with chart requirements and have navigated myself to PUCIK and then inbound, safely, tracking the inbound course. My partners "take" was that it was not "legal" and not what ATC expects. I don't fathom freight dog Lear-25's coming in from YIP hitting PUCIK as they come southbund into LRD and do a course reversal burning XXX lbs Jet-A. Well maybe they do, I don't know.
Thanks
look at this approach plate
http://dtpp.myairplane.com/pdfs/SC-3/00226R17L.PDF
Is the holding pattern/course reversal MANDATORY at PUCIK. Assume I am inbound from San Antonio. MANDATORY, or can I hit PUCIK and track the approach inbound from PUCIK. Outside PUCIK, 3000 is the recommended altitude. MSA circle is 2600, so I am already above the MSA.
I don't "need" a course reversal I am already almost lined up. Plus, above MSA circle.
Assume night time, tower closed. Shooting the approach in IMC. No vectors. Houston Center can't paint me/give vectors. Again, altitude wise, I am not gonna hit anything.
Assume I self-descended from legal MEA (with ATC approval) upon penetrating MSA circle, to 3000 (again above MSA altitude). Now I am almost lined up with PUCIK, say 10 miles north of PUCIK. Late night, tired, not in the mood to do a course reversal/holding pattern.
Not a trick question, this scenario was discussed the other day with some of us. My contention is that altitude wise, I am complying with chart requirements and have navigated myself to PUCIK and then inbound, safely, tracking the inbound course. My partners "take" was that it was not "legal" and not what ATC expects. I don't fathom freight dog Lear-25's coming in from YIP hitting PUCIK as they come southbund into LRD and do a course reversal burning XXX lbs Jet-A. Well maybe they do, I don't know.
Thanks
03-15-2012, 03:03 AM
#3
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: DH8D FO
Posts: 62
It depends on how you are cleared for the approach.
A procedure turn would be required with the following clearance:
"... cross PUCIK at 3000, cleared RNAV 17L approach"
A procedure turn would NOT be required with this clearance:
"... cross PUCIK at 3000, cleared straight-in RNAV 17L approach"
If you are setup perfectly for a straight-in and the controller does not specify, just ask for clarification.
Refer to AIM 5-4-9
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi...im0504.html.28
A procedure turn would be required with the following clearance:
"... cross PUCIK at 3000, cleared RNAV 17L approach"
A procedure turn would NOT be required with this clearance:
"... cross PUCIK at 3000, cleared straight-in RNAV 17L approach"
If you are setup perfectly for a straight-in and the controller does not specify, just ask for clarification.
Refer to AIM 5-4-9
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi...im0504.html.28
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