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Called into the CPs Office
Here is a question for those of you who have no confidence in the assistance of your weak ass union.
Would you ever hire a labor attorney to assist you when the company is harrassing you and interpreting the contract to THEIR advantage. People that I have talked to have said that our grievence process is a deplorable joke. Does anyone have experience with this. |
Calling the grievance process a deplorable joke is a compiment. If your company takes disciplinary action against you, the grievance process could get your job back for you. The problems with it are:
1) It could take years 2) The only one that suffers will be you 3) There is no punitive action against the company so they will continue with whatever behavior warranted the grievance 4) Your union will probably negotiate your settlement away in exchange for the company's promise that they'll never do "that" again 5) Reading in the magazine that the union scored a huge victory for the pilot group after they got you .036% of what was owed to you, which was written by someone who earns their salary from your union dues, was slightly offensive. The current system just doesn't work. If you have the funds to be unemployed for years, fight it with the union. If you actually want to see results, I'd probably hire an attorney. I'm not bagging on union guys. Some of them work very hard. The problem is the system. We're throwing stones at the nuke plant because the rules says we have to. |
" If you actually want to see results, I'd probably hire an attorney."
I tend to agree with you here. I guess my concern is that what would happen to the relationship going forward with the company. Right now that relationship is crappy as I do not like being put under a thumb and microscope and be expected to smile and thank them for the "privilege" of being screwed out of benefits that I have worked for. |
Originally Posted by DoorMatNot
(Post 1429367)
Here is a question for those of you who have no confidence in the assistance of your weak ass union.
Would you ever hire a labor attorney to assist you when the company is harrassing you and interpreting the contract to THEIR advantage. People that I have talked to have said that our grievence process is a deplorable joke. Does anyone have experience with this. Generally speaking, an outside attorney who has no airline specific RLA experience or experience with your CBA will do you no good, but you will fund his nautical or motorsport pursuits very nicely. Add to that the fact that since your union has the collective bargaining rights for your pilot group, the company could refuse to pay any attention to the guy. And if you go to court, as soon as the judge finds you are under a CBA and have not followed the greivance process...they will dismiss the complaint and tell you that you must go through the process first. |
Originally Posted by DoorMatNot
(Post 1429469)
" If you actually want to see results, I'd probably hire an attorney."
I tend to agree with you here. I guess my concern is that what would happen to the relationship going forward with the company. If you decide to go the attorney route, ATC's advice seems to me to be a little misguided and based on the assumption that aviation is completely unique and unlike any other industry. While it's certainly best to have an attorney with specific industry (and even specific employer) experience, that's true of every single legal problem you can encounter. But a good labor lawyer's job isn't to make a lot of noise; 90% of it is to be a guide and advisor to a complex process. Even if not dealing day-to-day with the nuances of the airline industry or your specific employer, she would review the CBA and ensure that all steps are properly taken and, if a lawsuit is a viable option, ensure that all preconditions and CBA and applicable administrative remedies are exhausted. |
Originally Posted by NoyGonnaDoIt
(Post 1430041)
That's always the trade. Depends on what you mean by "relationship" and what type of "relationship" you want. For some, having a job, even an insecure one where the employer calls all the shots and you have no say whatsoever, is a good trade. For others, not so much.
If you decide to go the attorney route, ATC's advice seems to me to be a little misguided and based on the assumption that aviation is completely unique and unlike any other industry. While it's certainly best to have an attorney with specific industry (and even specific employer) experience, that's true of every single legal problem you can encounter. But a good labor lawyer's job isn't to make a lot of noise; 90% of it is to be a guide and advisor to a complex process. Even if not dealing day-to-day with the nuances of the airline industry or your specific employer, she would review the CBA and ensure that all steps are properly taken and, if a lawsuit is a viable option, ensure that all preconditions and CBA and applicable administrative remedies are exhausted. Paying someone to tell you if your CBA has been followed only serves to empty your bank account. The CBA clearly spells out the greivance process and if it hasn't been followed, addresses the process for ajudication from filing through hearings and then either arbitration or System Board of Adjustment. Only when those avenues have been exhausted can one go outside the contract to the courts. All of which can be done by a crewmember without having to shell out to an attorney. |
Originally Posted by pokey9554
(Post 1429456)
Calling the grievance process a deplorable joke is a compiment. If your company takes disciplinary action against you, the grievance process could get your job back for you. The problems with it are:
1) It could take years 2) The only one that suffers will be you 3) There is no punitive action against the company so they will continue with whatever behavior warranted the grievance 4) Your union will probably negotiate your settlement away in exchange for the company's promise that they'll never do "that" again 5) Reading in the magazine that the union scored a huge victory for the pilot group after they got you .036% of what was owed to you, which was written by someone who earns their salary from your union dues, was slightly offensive. The current system just doesn't work. If you have the funds to be unemployed for years, fight it with the union. If you actually want to see results, I'd probably hire an attorney. I'm not bagging on union guys. Some of them work very hard. The problem is the system. We're throwing stones at the nuke plant because the rules says we have to. Why do we have such weak unions in the airline industry. its our own fault. |
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