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Old 04-08-2022, 08:12 AM
  #111  
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When will Breeze have their ALPA vote?
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Old 04-08-2022, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by chihuahua
When will Breeze have their ALPA vote?
June 2nd at 9:43am CST
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Old 04-08-2022, 06:34 PM
  #113  
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Good for you guys. Neeleman hates unions like they all do. This has to be record time.
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Old 04-08-2022, 08:35 PM
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That was fast. Kudos
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Old 04-08-2022, 09:26 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by UnableVNAVPTH
ďIf ALPA shows up here, it means I have failed as a leaderĒ -David Neeleman, January 2021
Did he really say this? If so thatís awesome. You guys have two former Allegiant executives L.J. and T.P., who learned Pilot hating from the master of Union busters in the business. If you donít feel you need ALPA now, you will. Neeleman is no different if he has surrounded himself with these two.
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Old 04-09-2022, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by FreshWater
Did he really say this? If so thatís awesome. You guys have two former Allegiant executives L.J. and T.P., who learned Pilot hating from the master of Union busters in the business. If you donít feel you need ALPA now, you will. Neeleman is no different if he has surrounded himself with these two.

100% he did. First week of indoc
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Old 04-09-2022, 04:10 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by FreshWater
Good for you guys. Neeleman hates unions like they all do. This has to be record time.
Anyone considering them seriously owes it to do the due diligence of visiting their offices and examine the budget and overhead carefully. They do good work, sometimes very good, however they are also very much like a charity where a large percentage of the donations go to overhead and administration.

They will provide resources however it is not a cure all and the lions share of the emphasis, control, and effort is with those that pay the bills - the Group A carriers. If you donít have the ability to work together collaboratively with management to find solutions for company and pilot issues itís no silver bullet. You can find yourself parked in a penalty box not making progress, TVM etc. OTOH if they are serious about taking care of the pilot group and donít want ALPA they will sweeten the pot on their own.

Not sure itís the right move just as they are starting up.

Last edited by TANSTAAFL; 04-09-2022 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 04-09-2022, 06:19 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL
Anyone considering them seriously owes it to do the due diligence of visiting their offices and examine the budget and overhead carefully. They do good work, sometimes very good, however they are also very much like a charity where a large percentage of the donations go to overhead and administration.

They will provide resources however it is not a cure all and the lions share of the emphasis, control, and effort is with those that pay the bills - the Group A carriers. If you donít have the ability to work together collaboratively with management to find solutions for company and pilot issues itís no silver bullet. You can find yourself parked in a penalty box not making progress, TVM etc. OTOH if they are serious about taking care of the pilot group and donít want ALPA they will sweeten the pot on their own.

Not sure itís the right move just as they are starting up.
They had many propositions and opportunities from our Pilot Committee to engage in working agreements, allowing for changes to be made in a specified amount of time. They didnít bite. Too many false promises. Management would agree that pay is low and they would fix it, then nothing happened. Over and over. Eventually youíve got to do what youíve got to do.

And yes, itís not a fix all. It may fix hardly anything. Iím sure upper management is frustrated about it. But for them to act like they didnít see it coming is absolutely hilarious. They were being told last fall that a union drive would happen very soon if conditions donít improve dramatically.
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Old 04-09-2022, 06:28 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by bonvoyage
They had many propositions and opportunities from our Pilot Committee to engage in working agreements, allowing for changes to be made in a specified amount of time. They didnít bite. Too many false promises. Management would agree that pay is low and they would fix it, then nothing happened. Over and over. Eventually youíve got to do what youíve got to do.

And yes, itís not a fix all. It may fix hardly anything. Iím sure upper management is frustrated about it. But for them to act like they didnít see it coming is absolutely hilarious. They were being told last fall that a union drive would happen very soon if conditions donít improve dramatically.
All this has happened beforeÖ..All this shall happen again

Sounds like you are being pragmatic and have eyes wide open. Assuming you have pilots with previous ALPA work thereÖ.
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Old 04-09-2022, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL
All this has happened beforeÖ..All this shall happen again

Sounds like you are being pragmatic and have eyes wide open. Assuming you have pilots with previous ALPA work thereÖ.
We do have prior union/ALPA experience here. We all know how unions are, they are only as good as your representatives are. ALPA contracts and leadership vary vastly among airlines.

What we need is a contract signed in ink with work rules. Black and white what they can and canít do. Pay will improve. But we need some work/reserve rules signed right now
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