Debating becoming a regional lifer.
05-29-2017, 05:13 AM
#31
Layover Master
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,310
Originally Posted by sargeanb
1. No, I'm not spending my days off flying or sim instructing because A) I have a family, and spending time with them ALWAYS comes first before anything work-related. B) The company does not allow it. LCCs...I refuse to give up my seniority and/or commute for anything but a legacy, so that's out.
2. I have an MBA in airline mgmt...hasn't helped thus far.
3. Working on that...
4. I've put enough money into this career, and refuse to spend more. I have 7K hours of flying 4 or 5 legs a day into and out of the busiest airports in the country, for the very legacies I'm applying to. If that's not enough experience for them, well, I don't know what to tell them.
5. Working on it...
6. I have several internal recs at every legacy. Nothing has come from it. Sadly, it seems HR controls the process now...if you dont "score" well enough, you never get a call...it doesnt matter how well fellow pilots think of you. I despise this, but that's the way it is.
Sorry to be a bit fatalist...I do appreciate the advice. I think, sadly, the key is going to these job fairs. As much as I hate the game, it looks like playing it is the only way in.
2. I have an MBA in airline mgmt...hasn't helped thus far.
3. Working on that...
4. I've put enough money into this career, and refuse to spend more. I have 7K hours of flying 4 or 5 legs a day into and out of the busiest airports in the country, for the very legacies I'm applying to. If that's not enough experience for them, well, I don't know what to tell them.
5. Working on it...
6. I have several internal recs at every legacy. Nothing has come from it. Sadly, it seems HR controls the process now...if you dont "score" well enough, you never get a call...it doesnt matter how well fellow pilots think of you. I despise this, but that's the way it is.
Sorry to be a bit fatalist...I do appreciate the advice. I think, sadly, the key is going to these job fairs. As much as I hate the game, it looks like playing it is the only way in.
I also have about 7k hours. 4k of those for a regional, 2k for heavy international operators, the rest instructing and 135. I also will not personally go to Spirit/Frontier/JetBlue at this time.
I also have a masters.
I have TONS of volunteer work from high school, college, and throughout my professional life. It's been consistent and quality volunteer work in things I am passionate about.
I rent airplanes on my own time to show my passion for flying even on my own. I meet friends and fly their planes to get a new plane checked that I haven't flown before.
I have held several official titles at my airlines, from union committee member to the Safety Editor.
I also have several internals at every legacy. 5+ at Delta and United. A coveted PE at FedEx, and a couple at UPS, and a CP rec at SWA.
I have been to four job fairs.
Crickets. Mother $%#$% crickets.
I get the frustration. I really do. That said, I am not yet 40, and thus am still doing everything in my power to get that dream job, including at least two job fairs this summer. I gave them up about a year ago, but it was hard to pass up Sun 'n Fun because the price and it's just cool to go to. Likewise with Oshkosh this year if you have any interest in Alaska. You'll also find me at OBAP. All I can say is that I support OBAP's mission, it's tax deductible, and it's kind of fun. This year it is in Orlando. You have a family. That is literally a tax deductible family vacation waiting to happen.
Choose your own adventure.
05-29-2017, 05:04 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 156
Originally Posted by CaptYoda
It's amazing what you might find that is wrong with your application (format, spelling, gaps, omissions). All these things can eliminate you from being considered.
Check-ride failures and other negatives are not necessarily the reason for not getting the call.
Check-ride failures and other negatives are not necessarily the reason for not getting the call.
05-30-2017, 06:29 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: DFW A320 FO
Posts: 586
Originally Posted by sgt98c
Holy crap. If this is true then the hiring process is truly fubar. Pilots need to hire pilots.
Everyone can have a bad day during a jeopardy event. With the myriad of resources available to check, double check, improve and even tailor your application, I think typos and grammatical errors on such an important document would show a worse applicant than a one-off mistake.
05-31-2017, 05:04 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,196
I've looked at hundreds or resumes. It can be worse than typos or grammar. That's minor in comparison. Dates missing, were you a Captain or FO(if you were FO and didn't say it were you trying to be misleading???), jobs missing, gaps in work history, how long did you fly a specific aircraft, etc.
The interview transitions from an interview to a resume investigation - "what dates? Which seat? When? Where? Why didn't you put that down?" The candidate loses any momentum they might have had. Instead of trying to connect, or tell their story, time is spent correcting their resume. You might recover but it's a bad start. The reverse of that is when the resume is done well. A guy sat down for his interview with HR " she grabs a pen and starts reading my resume. Starts to ticking off things on my resume 'well you've got everything we want to see.' At that point I realized 'you've got this." Obviously the interview process wasn't over but it was a great confidence boost for him to pass the first step with a pat on the back and no significant questions.
And here's the crazy part - people think their resumes tell the details, until you start asking questions. It's a total momentum suck when, instead of check marks, the resumes starts getting hand written corrections and additions. That's what you pay the money for, to maintain the momentum.
A guy asked me to review a resume for a guy he knew. He jump seated frequently with the guy. I told him it needed to be rewritten because a lot was missing. He insisted the resume was fine. "Ok, I'll ask questions and you look at the resume and tell me." It went downhill rapidly. From the resume he couldn't tell me what a/c the guy was currently flying, if he was Captain, when he upgraded, which a/c he'd flown as FO or CA, what he flown at previous jobs etc, etc. At first glance the resume looked fine until you realized a lot of details were missing.
And if a resume company says "you've done so much don't bother putting down the first half of your career" (true story!?) just walk away. That's terrible advice. Luckily he had two resumes and on one of them he'd ignored their advice.
I do not get any financial rewards from recommending having someone else look at your resume so I'm not trying to push any company or product. A buddy who works in hiring, or has in the past, should work. It's a fresh set of eyes during a detailed review. Guys feel bad about the typos but it's the missing details, or jobs, that can really hurt. No one gets suspicious of a typo, but missing job history might start the questioning and you might end up watching momentum walk out the door.
The interview transitions from an interview to a resume investigation - "what dates? Which seat? When? Where? Why didn't you put that down?" The candidate loses any momentum they might have had. Instead of trying to connect, or tell their story, time is spent correcting their resume. You might recover but it's a bad start. The reverse of that is when the resume is done well. A guy sat down for his interview with HR " she grabs a pen and starts reading my resume. Starts to ticking off things on my resume 'well you've got everything we want to see.' At that point I realized 'you've got this." Obviously the interview process wasn't over but it was a great confidence boost for him to pass the first step with a pat on the back and no significant questions.
And here's the crazy part - people think their resumes tell the details, until you start asking questions. It's a total momentum suck when, instead of check marks, the resumes starts getting hand written corrections and additions. That's what you pay the money for, to maintain the momentum.
A guy asked me to review a resume for a guy he knew. He jump seated frequently with the guy. I told him it needed to be rewritten because a lot was missing. He insisted the resume was fine. "Ok, I'll ask questions and you look at the resume and tell me." It went downhill rapidly. From the resume he couldn't tell me what a/c the guy was currently flying, if he was Captain, when he upgraded, which a/c he'd flown as FO or CA, what he flown at previous jobs etc, etc. At first glance the resume looked fine until you realized a lot of details were missing.
And if a resume company says "you've done so much don't bother putting down the first half of your career" (true story!?) just walk away. That's terrible advice. Luckily he had two resumes and on one of them he'd ignored their advice.
I do not get any financial rewards from recommending having someone else look at your resume so I'm not trying to push any company or product. A buddy who works in hiring, or has in the past, should work. It's a fresh set of eyes during a detailed review. Guys feel bad about the typos but it's the missing details, or jobs, that can really hurt. No one gets suspicious of a typo, but missing job history might start the questioning and you might end up watching momentum walk out the door.
05-31-2017, 10:24 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: E170 CA
Posts: 200
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
If it makes you feel any better....
I also have about 7k hours. 4k of those for a regional, 2k for heavy international operators, the rest instructing and 135. I also will not personally go to Spirit/Frontier/JetBlue at this time.
I also have a masters.
I have TONS of volunteer work from high school, college, and throughout my professional life. It's been consistent and quality volunteer work in things I am passionate about.
I rent airplanes on my own time to show my passion for flying even on my own. I meet friends and fly their planes to get a new plane checked that I haven't flown before.
I have held several official titles at my airlines, from union committee member to the Safety Editor.
I also have several internals at every legacy. 5+ at Delta and United. A coveted PE at FedEx, and a couple at UPS, and a CP rec at SWA.
I have been to four job fairs.
Crickets. Mother $%#$% crickets.
I get the frustration. I really do. That said, I am not yet 40, and thus am still doing everything in my power to get that dream job, including at least two job fairs this summer. I gave them up about a year ago, but it was hard to pass up Sun 'n Fun because the price and it's just cool to go to. Likewise with Oshkosh this year if you have any interest in Alaska. You'll also find me at OBAP. All I can say is that I support OBAP's mission, it's tax deductible, and it's kind of fun. This year it is in Orlando. You have a family. That is literally a tax deductible family vacation waiting to happen.
Choose your own adventure.
I also have about 7k hours. 4k of those for a regional, 2k for heavy international operators, the rest instructing and 135. I also will not personally go to Spirit/Frontier/JetBlue at this time.
I also have a masters.
I have TONS of volunteer work from high school, college, and throughout my professional life. It's been consistent and quality volunteer work in things I am passionate about.
I rent airplanes on my own time to show my passion for flying even on my own. I meet friends and fly their planes to get a new plane checked that I haven't flown before.
I have held several official titles at my airlines, from union committee member to the Safety Editor.
I also have several internals at every legacy. 5+ at Delta and United. A coveted PE at FedEx, and a couple at UPS, and a CP rec at SWA.
I have been to four job fairs.
Crickets. Mother $%#$% crickets.
I get the frustration. I really do. That said, I am not yet 40, and thus am still doing everything in my power to get that dream job, including at least two job fairs this summer. I gave them up about a year ago, but it was hard to pass up Sun 'n Fun because the price and it's just cool to go to. Likewise with Oshkosh this year if you have any interest in Alaska. You'll also find me at OBAP. All I can say is that I support OBAP's mission, it's tax deductible, and it's kind of fun. This year it is in Orlando. You have a family. That is literally a tax deductible family vacation waiting to happen.
Choose your own adventure.
06-01-2017, 06:45 PM
#36
Layover Master
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,310
Originally Posted by sargeanb
Ouch...four job fairs at approx $200+ a pop...frustrating. I know there are plenty applying with my quals or better. The golden question is just how to get your foot in the door.
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