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polaris746 07-22-2017 07:38 AM

29 y/o lawyer looking to pursue dream
 
I am a CPL-ASEL with 500 hours (mostly before 2010) who has wanted to be an airline pilot since I was 8. Due to parental and other societal pressures, I went to an elite undergrad school, a top 10 law school, and I have now been practicing corporate law at a large international law firm for a few years.

It sucks. I make good money, but the firm owns every aspect of my life. Sometimes I work 100 hours a week. Sometimes I get an email at 6 pm on a Friday that forces me to cancel all my weekend plans and put in 40 hours before Monday morning. In February and April, I did not have a single day off, and averaged anywhere from 10-15 hour work days. This job is truly soul crushing. Even the smallest mistakes are inexcusable and potentially career ending. Case in point, I got yelled at for misplacing a period in a document after pulling consecutive all nighters reviewing contracts. This is standard for a large, corporate law practice, and I knew it going in. But I don't know if I can take this much longer.

I know I need 1,000 more hours to qualify for regional. Being a CFI is not an option while keeping my current job because I would lose all my students when I cancel on them for the 10th time because a partner wants me to drop everything to do something. I could pay for my 1,000 hours but that doesn't sound realistic or cost-effective.

Is there any way that I can get to the regionals from this stage in my life? I know QOL at a regional is not the greatest, but I drool at the concept of getting guaranteed days off. It would take a lot to make me complain, especially when I'm doing what I love -- flying.

I get it, people have told me -- get a job that pays you well so you can fly for fun. I believed in that until I realized I literally have no time to fly, let alone maintain proficiency and currency.

I have a wife who makes good money and no kids (yet) but we want kids soon. I can't really move away from Chicago because we have a house and my wife's job here, which puts quitting and doing full-time CFI a risky endeavor (bad winters).

Life is too short to be in a soul crushing job. Money is important but it's not as important as my family life or personal health (mental and physical).

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

BoilerUP 07-22-2017 07:55 AM

Any chance of changing your legal specialty - to a practice or organization giving you a better work/life balance, even if you have to take a substantial pay cut?

Your 1000-hour deficit to an ATP is daunting, but workable. Given your legal background, you may be attractive to a Chicagoland corporate or charter operator after obtaining a multi-engine certificate. The catch with that is flight time tends to come slower than a 121 operation, but perhaps that will let you keep a foot in both worlds until you reach ATP minimums.

Your story is one I have heard many many times from young law associates...one many pilots who tell young people "this job sucks, go be a lawyer" conveniently omit.

polaris746 07-22-2017 08:08 AM

Thanks for your response.


Originally Posted by BoilerUP (Post 2398339)
Any chance of changing your legal specialty - to a practice or organization giving you a better work/life balance, even if you have to take a substantial pay cut?

Kind of. I'm working on that as we speak, but it's hard. Work/life balance is often illusory at smaller shops. They may very well work you just as hard and you make half the pay, so I have to be careful.


Originally Posted by BoilerUP (Post 2398339)
Your 1000-hour deficit to an ATP is daunting, but workable. Given your legal background, you may be attractive to a Chicagoland corporate or charter operator after obtaining a multi-engine certificate. The catch with that is flight time tends to come slower than a 121 operation, but perhaps that will let you keep a foot in both worlds until you reach ATP minimums.

This is interesting. I never thought my legal background would actually help in the pilot world. What makes you think this, and what would be a way to get my foot in the door?


Originally Posted by BoilerUP (Post 2398339)
Your story is one I have heard many many times from young law associates...one many pilots who tell young people "this job sucks, go be a lawyer" conveniently omit.

I totally get that the grass is greener on the other side, and I am also worried about that as well going into flying as a career. But my grass is pretty wilted so I would be happy with any grass, even it's full of creeping charlies...

galaxy flyer 07-22-2017 08:09 AM

My niece also went to a. "top ten" law school, hated the NYC law firm vibe (same experience as your's), then found a small, boutique firm in SoCal, made partner in five years and loves it. Laid back Cali lifestyle, good money, lots of friends. The first five years in aviation are just like being where you are now--no schedule, little money and lots of cancelled family events.

GF

polaris746 07-22-2017 08:13 AM


Originally Posted by galaxy flyer (Post 2398350)
My niece also went to a. "top ten" law school, hated the NYC law firm vibe (same experience as your's), then found a small, boutique firm in SoCal, made partner in five years and loves it. Laid back Cali lifestyle, good money, lots of friends. The first five years in aviation are just like being where you are now--no schedule, little money and lots of cancelled family events.

GF

Your niece is definitely living the life! That would be a good outcome for me, I think -- one that I hope may come across in the future. The unfortunate part of being where I am now is that my misery is not just confined to the first 5 years of my career. One could argue that your misery increases exponentially as you get more senior -- as you gain more experience, responsibility and client contact. A partner once told me, "I never said goodbye to my dad because I was working. Don't ever let that happen to you."

I travel a lot for my job and the part I love the most is when I'm at the airport and in the air... my colleagues think I'm weird but I'm an aviator at heart.

Otterbox 07-22-2017 08:41 AM


Originally Posted by polaris746 (Post 2398334)
I am a CPL-ASEL with 500 hours (mostly before 2010) who has wanted to be an airline pilot since I was 8. Due to parental and other societal pressures, I went to an elite undergrad school, a top 10 law school, and I have now been practicing corporate law at a large international law firm for a few years.

It sucks. I make good money, but the firm owns every aspect of my life. Sometimes I work 100 hours a week. Sometimes I get an email at 6 pm on a Friday that forces me to cancel all my weekend plans and put in 40 hours before Monday morning. In February and April, I did not have a single day off, and averaged anywhere from 10-15 hour work days. This job is truly soul crushing. Even the smallest mistakes are inexcusable and potentially career ending. Case in point, I got yelled at for misplacing a period in a document after pulling consecutive all nighters reviewing contracts. This is standard for a large, corporate law practice, and I knew it going in. But I don't know if I can take this much longer.

I know I need 1,000 more hours to qualify for regional. Being a CFI is not an option while keeping my current job because I would lose all my students when I cancel on them for the 10th time because a partner wants me to drop everything to do something. I could pay for my 1,000 hours but that doesn't sound realistic or cost-effective.

Is there any way that I can get to the regionals from this stage in my life? I know QOL at a regional is not the greatest, but I drool at the concept of getting guaranteed days off. It would take a lot to make me complain, especially when I'm doing what I love -- flying.

I get it, people have told me -- get a job that pays you well so you can fly for fun. I believed in that until I realized I literally have no time to fly, let alone maintain proficiency and currency.

I have a wife who makes good money and no kids (yet) but we want kids soon. I can't really move away from Chicago because we have a house and my wife's job here, which puts quitting and doing full-time CFI a risky endeavor (bad winters).

Life is too short to be in a soul crushing job. Money is important but it's not as important as my family life or personal health (mental and physical).

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Well, it sounds like in your situation you're going to either have to suck it up and quit the firm to pursue flying. At 500hrs your best bet would be to get your CFI and crank out 1000hrs as part of a regional airlines cadet program (should only take a year or so if you work hard) with your wife working extra to help mitigate the financial loss.

I'm only Familiar with the Piedmont Airlines Cadet program, but PHL is commutable from Chicago. Otherwise one of the other AA wholly owned regionals (Envoy or PSA) may have a program.

Piedmont Airlines Cadet Program

polaris746 07-22-2017 08:49 AM

Any thoughts about flying SIC for a commutable Part 135 gig? I have a friend with a contact at one of the Part 135 but I'm getting conflicting advice on how useful these hours are. I suppose if you can upgrade to captain quickly then the hours become more useful?

Do airlines even value Part 135 SIC hours? Is it even loggable?

Rama 07-22-2017 09:46 AM

Regionals don't care, they need bodies.
I would advise you to save as much as you can and then start flying full time at a 135 or 91 outfit. Build your hours and and work on the ATP.
Expect a number of years on the low end of the pay scale. Be realistic on your standard new standard of living.
Good Luck.

C130driver 07-22-2017 09:44 PM


Originally Posted by polaris746 (Post 2398352)
Your niece is definitely living the life! That would be a good outcome for me, I think -- one that I hope may come across in the future. The unfortunate part of being where I am now is that my misery is not just confined to the first 5 years of my career. One could argue that your misery increases exponentially as you get more senior -- as you gain more experience, responsibility and client contact. A partner once told me, "I never said goodbye to my dad because I was working. Don't ever let that happen to you."

I travel a lot for my job and the part I love the most is when I'm at the airport and in the air... my colleagues think I'm weird but I'm an aviator at heart.

I've wanted to fly since I was 3, as I got closer to college I had a few months where I couldn't chose between med school/ law school or going to the USAF academy and becoming a pilot. I have zero regrets and I love my job. Your story is one I hear often from many of my lawyer friends and in no way shape or form am I jealous. It seems your heart is in aviation, I say go for it.

Seems like money is not an issue so get your 1500 hours in anything powered that flies- apply to the regionals; Envoy is pretty decent out of ORD then go to the majors.

Sliceback 07-24-2017 03:12 PM

It's possible to be at American Airlines via the flow through agreement approx. 8 yrs from your current position at the earliest.

Talking with a F/A today that has some flying time. He's in the same boat but three years younger. He'd have three more years at the end of his career because of the age difference.

Rough estimate is a guy under 40 would have about 15-20 years as a Captain with the rest of his career as an FO. Pay 12 yrs from the start (ie today) would be around $150,000. Roughly four years later it would be approx. $240,000. Four years later it would probably be around $290,000. The last couple of years would be $350,000.

Those are rough estimates and the future is always uncertain. Getting a major airline job is uncertain but today it's probably at the highest odds it's been in decades if not ever.


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