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Old 12-11-2017, 03:33 PM   #21  
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Originally Posted by Riverside View Post
Nope, but might have changed since colgan. But zero reports on my FAA record from my 141 days.
I thought it changed due to colgan (dude had a plethora of 141 busts IIRC). There's no way it could be retro-active though, 141 records are only kept for 3 years.
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Old 12-14-2017, 07:00 AM   #22  
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If memory serves, the application requires that you list everything within the last 10 years. Also, most places have an additional document to give more details on jobs within the last 5-years. If you leave something out and they find out about it, you will be terminated immediately. They will come into the middle of class and tell you to gather your things, and your classmates will never see you again. This literally happened to a classmate of mine in INDOC because his PIRA came back incomplete. Now you will have that on your record too.

Your best bet is to disclose everything and be honest about it. Don't make it out like it was all their fault, take some responsibility and tell them it was a good learning experience for you. Then say how it helped you with the jobs you have had since. I don't see one incident like that being a deal breaker (unless there is some bad details you left out), especially in this hiring environment.
According to AC 120-58H

If there is a discrepancy between what you put down and what the PRIA came back with, there is a process:

3.4.6 Allow Pilots/Applicants an Opportunity to Respond. Before making a final hiring decision, you must provide the pilot/applicant with a reasonable opportunity to submit written comments to correct any inaccuracies contained in the records. Retain such statements in the PRIA file for the individual. These comments may be included in the records from the previous employer; however, the pilot may forward these comments to you at some point during the interview or records review process.

The person that was terminated immediately may have been well outside this with a murder conviction or something similarly atrocious.
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Old 12-14-2017, 07:43 AM   #23  
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According to AC 120-58H

If there is a discrepancy between what you put down and what the PRIA came back with, there is a process:

3.4.6 Allow Pilots/Applicants an Opportunity to Respond. Before making a final hiring decision, you must provide the pilot/applicant with a reasonable opportunity to submit written comments to correct any inaccuracies contained in the records. Retain such statements in the PRIA file for the individual. These comments may be included in the records from the previous employer; however, the pilot may forward these comments to you at some point during the interview or records review process.

The person that was terminated immediately may have been well outside this with a murder conviction or something similarly atrocious.
The AC is not law, and is not binding on employers in that regard. It would provide ammo in a subsequent lawsuit.

Yes, I assume everyone who gets fired gets an opportunity to explain themselves to the CP... they stop by his office on the way to the front door.

But in most of the cases the offender has no excuse.
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:03 AM   #24  
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I know this is an old thread but Iím curious, what else does a background for a pilot consist of.

Iíve been through and passed law enforcement backgrounds. It was a headache.

They began with a large packet (~28 pages) of checkboxes and fill in the blank asking questions about everything from fights in middle school, education history, family history (relatives, kids, divorces etc), financial (list all accounts, debts, etc) crimes (arrested or not) work history (dates of employment, terms of separation, disciplinary action, list of references), driving history to personal references.

The most awkward was the neighborhood visit. The investigator randomly shows up at your house, looks around and talks to your neighbors.

There is also a polygraph and psychological evaluation.

Do commercial pilots go through the same process? Iím considering a career change and would like to prepare by organizing contact info for references and previous employers now.

Thanks
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Old 01-02-2019, 07:47 AM   #25  
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I know this is an old thread but Iím curious, what else does a background for a pilot consist of.

Iíve been through and passed law enforcement backgrounds. It was a headache.

They began with a large packet (~28 pages) of checkboxes and fill in the blank asking questions about everything from fights in middle school, education history, family history (relatives, kids, divorces etc), financial (list all accounts, debts, etc) crimes (arrested or not) work history (dates of employment, terms of separation, disciplinary action, list of references), driving history to personal references.

The most awkward was the neighborhood visit. The investigator randomly shows up at your house, looks around and talks to your neighbors.

There is also a polygraph and psychological evaluation.

Do commercial pilots go through the same process? Iím considering a career change and would like to prepare by organizing contact info for references and previous employers now.

Thanks
It's not like a federal security clearance or LE background check. It used to be more invasive, but labor law has brought the airlines more in line with "normal" civilian employers.

Three parts basically...

1. PRIA: Federal law, required. This requires the hiring airline to obtain specified info about from past aviation employers. There are numerous discussions about PRIA on this forum, but basically the only info shared should be related to pilot technical performance or termination for any reason. Should not include HR type info, other than termination.

2. SIDA. Federal law, required. The airline (and often domicile airport) will verify that you don't have a history of certain disqualifying convictions. They use the FBI database (and NDR?), and are only supposed to consider convictions, not arrests. It is know that in the past at least, airlines might during that process see an arrest or expunged conviction which was NOT disqualifying and then use that info to make a hiring decision.

3. Airline background check. Whatever the airline in question wants to do, as limited by by state employment law where the HQ is located (rules can vary widely by state). Today this is going to be very similar to what any normal white-collar employee might get. They might call some references and past employers, but they aren't going door to door in your neighborhood.

Also when you renew your FAA medical they check at least the NDR, details are on the form.
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:39 PM   #26  
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Hm, okay. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

If and when I make it there for a pilot job, I guess I’ll see what they have me consent to. It doesn’t sound like it will be more invasive (and awkward) than what I’ve passed before.

Last edited by 17FZ07; 01-06-2019 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:40 PM   #27  
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Checkride failures won't be on your FAA report.
Are you sure?
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Old 01-11-2019, 07:42 AM   #28  
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Except if you trained at 141 in house program. Checkride failures won't be on your FAA report.
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Are you sure?
In the past "incomplete" (ie failed) 141 checkrides conducted under the examining authority of the school did not result in pink slips. However...


1. I believe recent legislation may have changed that, so that records of such 141 failures will be retained by the FAA. I know it was proposed, lost track of whether it was implemented.

2. An experienced interviewer (or anyone who was an examiner or CP in 141) can spot a 141 checkride failure in your logbook. Certain training must be done before a checkride, including retraining before a re-test. If you lie, it will probably get spotted.

3. Sometimes outside examiners will issue a pink slip for a 141 test. In that case, the examiner (perhaps unknown to you) effectively conducted the test under part 61. If you got an actual pink slip, so did the FAA.

4. PRIA requires the FAA to return certain records. Pink slips are NOT included. However... anyone can get additional records from the FAA via FOIA, and that DOES include pink slips.

Assume that all decent airlines do the FOIA, certainly all of the top tier. Some bottom-feeders/regionals might not do FOIA, on the principle of plausible deniability... they are not required to do FOIA, and can claim they did not not know what a screwup you actually were because PRIA doesn't provide that.

Bottom line:

- Don't lie about 141 busts, they will probably be noticed one way or another.

- Assume any airline will FOIA part 61 pink slips.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:54 AM   #29  
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Except if you trained at 141 in house program. Checkride failures won't be on your FAA report.
I know someone who failed a checkride. The failure doesn't show up when he pulled his records from the FAA. What does show up is a checked box on the subsequent checkride where he acknowledged that he had failed a checkride. He chooses to be honest about it because the failure was a judgement call thing, and he passed the same cheride in the same airplane later that same day.
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