Regional Airline Training Advice
02-26-2018, 02:46 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 291
Originally Posted by Paladin145
Rickair,
I would run very fast away from a CRJ-200 job at Wisconsin. You don't have to dodge a certain airplane, but definitely run from certain NASA space shuttle pilot training programs at the regionals ie. Wisconsin.
I would run very fast away from a CRJ-200 job at Wisconsin. You don't have to dodge a certain airplane, but definitely run from certain NASA space shuttle pilot training programs at the regionals ie. Wisconsin.
Ok, look, I've been through a training program or two. This is my first 121 gig, however, so take this fwiw. If there's one thing that ZW is doing really well with their training program, it's setting clear, achievable, expectations. In every sense, they tell you "tomorrow, you'll be expected to perform _____." And at every step, it's well within reasonable study/prep/effort expectations. At it's most gruesome, you have to memorize things. It's on the same level as that paragraph you had to memorize for your second grade spring history pageant. The mental equivalent of filling sandbags; you just gotta roll up your sleeves, the work won't do itself. They're not asking you to be Frank Abignale and cold study for the Bar Exam in two weeks, just memorize some dry data and be able to spit it back out. This is not, by any stretch, a tough program.
02-26-2018, 08:30 AM
#12
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,244
Originally Posted by deftone
Interesting....I have not heard too many people speak negatively on Wisconsin and I have them as one of my top places to apply when I am eligible. Do you have first hand experience there and the training issues? Anything else you can share?
02-26-2018, 09:54 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,897
Originally Posted by Paladin145
Good question. I don't think it is published. I know that Air Wisconsin training is probably the toughest. Seems for pilots new to 121, best training programs are:
- Republic
- TSA
- Piedmont
- Republic
- TSA
- Piedmont
02-26-2018, 01:25 PM
#14
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,244
Originally Posted by Otterbox
Piedmont seems to pride itself on having the lowest initial NH washout rate (on the jet) thanks to AQP and “train to proficiency”. Last # I heard from the Training Center guys was a 4% washout rate.
02-26-2018, 02:23 PM
#15
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Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 78
Program is not for someone new to 121
I have first hand knowledge. If you're doing well there, that's good to hear. Once you finish training, I've heard it is a good place to b.
On one post, 1 Wisconsin pilot said they lost 10 people from the January list. Considering the class sizes, that's a lot. One FO I know that left that an 8 out of 11 washout rate in his class. This is definitely not the place for someone starting their career. The company should do a sim check during the interview; save money, time, and pilot careers.
On one post, 1 Wisconsin pilot said they lost 10 people from the January list. Considering the class sizes, that's a lot. One FO I know that left that an 8 out of 11 washout rate in his class. This is definitely not the place for someone starting their career. The company should do a sim check during the interview; save money, time, and pilot careers.
Originally Posted by BFMthisA10
Not sure if this is sarcasm. Really, not sure. Did you actually go through ZW's training, or are you gleaning off of open source forums for your data?
Ok, look, I've been through a training program or two. This is my first 121 gig, however, so take this fwiw. If there's one thing that ZW is doing really well with their training program, it's setting clear, achievable, expectations. In every sense, they tell you "tomorrow, you'll be expected to perform _____." And at every step, it's well within reasonable study/prep/effort expectations. At it's most gruesome, you have to memorize things. It's on the same level as that paragraph you had to memorize for your second grade spring history pageant. The mental equivalent of filling sandbags; you just gotta roll up your sleeves, the work won't do itself. They're not asking you to be Frank Abignale and cold study for the Bar Exam in two weeks, just memorize some dry data and be able to spit it back out. This is not, by any stretch, a tough program.
Ok, look, I've been through a training program or two. This is my first 121 gig, however, so take this fwiw. If there's one thing that ZW is doing really well with their training program, it's setting clear, achievable, expectations. In every sense, they tell you "tomorrow, you'll be expected to perform _____." And at every step, it's well within reasonable study/prep/effort expectations. At it's most gruesome, you have to memorize things. It's on the same level as that paragraph you had to memorize for your second grade spring history pageant. The mental equivalent of filling sandbags; you just gotta roll up your sleeves, the work won't do itself. They're not asking you to be Frank Abignale and cold study for the Bar Exam in two weeks, just memorize some dry data and be able to spit it back out. This is not, by any stretch, a tough program.
02-26-2018, 03:45 PM
#16
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Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 117
I have several thousand hours on each aircraft, 175 and CRJ 200 and 900.
The Embraer is significantly easier. You'd be less likely to bust a ride on that in my opinion.
Auto throttle will save you from flap overspeeds during a busy go around. Automated anti icing is one less thing to worry about. There's about a dozen other things I can think of that could screw you up on the CRJ and is automated on the Embraer.
The Embraer is significantly easier. You'd be less likely to bust a ride on that in my opinion.
Auto throttle will save you from flap overspeeds during a busy go around. Automated anti icing is one less thing to worry about. There's about a dozen other things I can think of that could screw you up on the CRJ and is automated on the Embraer.
03-01-2018, 08:39 AM
#17
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Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 291
Originally Posted by Paladin145
I have first hand knowledge.
I was busy for a few days, so slow to respond.
Listen, i get where you’re coming from and I do not mean to minimize your experience. But there’s a better outlook and healthier ways to move forward.
Everyone I’ve dealt with here is putting in an honest day’s work trying to help us succeed: bottom line. To include continual evaluation of trends, techniques, materials, and the costs and returns within each segment of training. No-one is asleep at the switch, pushing an outdated sink-or-swim curriculum. As I said, if someone is alert to the stated expectations and ready to learn on day one, this is a fairly straightforward course.
You’re cherry picking anonymous anecdotes from the internet ether
and spinning tales to fit a preconceived narrative, and it doesn’t reflect the reality on the ground. It’s also inequitable to folks that are putting in the effort, regardless whether you agree with a tough decision that affected you personally.
03-01-2018, 09:23 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 78
No sore spot but know the training.
To clarify, I have first hand knowledge of the training.
I am still there, but don't want to see new people mess up their PRIA.
Many examples from classmates, line pilots, etc., and FO's who have made lateral moves to other regionals. Most people put in a ton of effort. Others should not be allowed in the training department.
LCA / instructor examples."
LCA to sim student in brief " Do you not care about our flows, or are you just stupid. ? " Other training partner intervenes to stick up for her training partner. Is not given additional sims, and let go. Coincidence?
Instructor in sim, to student. " Your moving the yoke to much !" Instructor says, "your doing this." Grabs yoke, starts shaking it. Sim shakes so much it almost goes off motion. Student starts rethinking his airline choice.
Definitely some weeding out needs to be done in the training department to make it the place you believe.
I am still there, but don't want to see new people mess up their PRIA.
Many examples from classmates, line pilots, etc., and FO's who have made lateral moves to other regionals. Most people put in a ton of effort. Others should not be allowed in the training department.
LCA / instructor examples."
LCA to sim student in brief " Do you not care about our flows, or are you just stupid. ? " Other training partner intervenes to stick up for her training partner. Is not given additional sims, and let go. Coincidence?
Instructor in sim, to student. " Your moving the yoke to much !" Instructor says, "your doing this." Grabs yoke, starts shaking it. Sim shakes so much it almost goes off motion. Student starts rethinking his airline choice.
Definitely some weeding out needs to be done in the training department to make it the place you believe.
Originally Posted by BFMthisA10
Aaaahhhh, ok. Didn’t mean to touch a sore spot there.
I was busy for a few days, so slow to respond.
Listen, i get where you’re coming from and I do not mean to minimize your experience. But there’s a better outlook and healthier ways to move forward.
Everyone I’ve dealt with here is putting in an honest day’s work trying to help us succeed: bottom line. To include continual evaluation of trends, techniques, materials, and the costs and returns within each segment of training. No-one is asleep at the switch, pushing an outdated sink-or-swim curriculum. As I said, if someone is alert to the stated expectations and ready to learn on day one, this is a fairly straightforward course.
You’re cherry picking anonymous anecdotes from the internet ether
and spinning tales to fit a preconceived narrative, and it doesn’t reflect the reality on the ground. It’s also inequitable to folks that are putting in the effort, regardless whether you agree with a tough decision that affected you personally.
I was busy for a few days, so slow to respond.
Listen, i get where you’re coming from and I do not mean to minimize your experience. But there’s a better outlook and healthier ways to move forward.
Everyone I’ve dealt with here is putting in an honest day’s work trying to help us succeed: bottom line. To include continual evaluation of trends, techniques, materials, and the costs and returns within each segment of training. No-one is asleep at the switch, pushing an outdated sink-or-swim curriculum. As I said, if someone is alert to the stated expectations and ready to learn on day one, this is a fairly straightforward course.
You’re cherry picking anonymous anecdotes from the internet ether
and spinning tales to fit a preconceived narrative, and it doesn’t reflect the reality on the ground. It’s also inequitable to folks that are putting in the effort, regardless whether you agree with a tough decision that affected you personally.
03-01-2018, 09:58 AM
#19
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 78
Original Post: Regional airline strategy.
Trying to get this thread back to original post.
Originally Posted by Paladin145
1.) Research EVERY regional. Create an excel spreadsheet with a point system. Try to get the one in the top 3 of your personal ranking.
Ask for a later class date while interviewing. Try to get 3 offers in same time frame so you can choose the best one for you. You don't want to be called for an interview at your best choice airline, while at first day of INDOC at second choice. I've been there
2.) DON"T go somewhere with a high washout rate. If that is your dream job, get some multi turbine experience FIRST ! ( Part 135, etc.) Get good at using FD, Autopilot, FMS flying to precision. Always at ref, always same place in touchdown zone, etc. If you have doubts about getting through Part 121 training, definitely start out in Part 135, 91, etc. Ease into it. Its not worth rushing, and having a bad record.
One FO I spoke to said in his class of 11, 8 were let go. Sounds like NAVY SEAL training !
3.) Become an expert on:
- Visual approaches
- Sweptwing aerodynamics
- Sweptwing crosswind landing in max crosswinds with gusts. ( a good number of wingtip strikes on CRJ-200, some on CRJ-700, and ERJ-145.) Not a good way to start your career.
- Reading METARS ( with ice pellets, freezing rain, Thunderstorms, etc. )
- Reading NOTAMS
- Takeoff / landing reports TLR's
- General Profiles : T/O , V1 cuts, etc. ( Read "Turbine Pilot's manual".)
- Flows, CRM
3.) DON'T chase upgrade ! Be patient, and stay put, if unsure. Regionals are changing so fast, you don't want to leave a place that turns out to be on top the next year.
4.) In training, study, and work like it is the hardest thing you have ever done in your life ! It probably is, for most people ( Except for Most Military pilots.)
4.) RELAX, and enjoy flying ! Let the LCA's insults roll of your back, and don't take it personally. Take the input onboard, and get better.
One day you will be a Captain, and you can create a team environment on YOUR aircraft. It's been proven to be much safer to function as a team, and it sure makes the job much more fun.
Ask for a later class date while interviewing. Try to get 3 offers in same time frame so you can choose the best one for you. You don't want to be called for an interview at your best choice airline, while at first day of INDOC at second choice. I've been there
2.) DON"T go somewhere with a high washout rate. If that is your dream job, get some multi turbine experience FIRST ! ( Part 135, etc.) Get good at using FD, Autopilot, FMS flying to precision. Always at ref, always same place in touchdown zone, etc. If you have doubts about getting through Part 121 training, definitely start out in Part 135, 91, etc. Ease into it. Its not worth rushing, and having a bad record.
One FO I spoke to said in his class of 11, 8 were let go. Sounds like NAVY SEAL training !
3.) Become an expert on:
- Visual approaches
- Sweptwing aerodynamics
- Sweptwing crosswind landing in max crosswinds with gusts. ( a good number of wingtip strikes on CRJ-200, some on CRJ-700, and ERJ-145.) Not a good way to start your career.
- Reading METARS ( with ice pellets, freezing rain, Thunderstorms, etc. )
- Reading NOTAMS
- Takeoff / landing reports TLR's
- General Profiles : T/O , V1 cuts, etc. ( Read "Turbine Pilot's manual".)
- Flows, CRM
3.) DON'T chase upgrade ! Be patient, and stay put, if unsure. Regionals are changing so fast, you don't want to leave a place that turns out to be on top the next year.
4.) In training, study, and work like it is the hardest thing you have ever done in your life ! It probably is, for most people ( Except for Most Military pilots.)
4.) RELAX, and enjoy flying ! Let the LCA's insults roll of your back, and don't take it personally. Take the input onboard, and get better.
One day you will be a Captain, and you can create a team environment on YOUR aircraft. It's been proven to be much safer to function as a team, and it sure makes the job much more fun.
03-01-2018, 11:24 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 291
Originally Posted by Paladin145
Trying to get this thread back to original post.
Again, I don't expect you to convince you of that, but let me John Madden this, if I may.
1) Not nearly enough info in either case, but in scenario 1...helllzYEAH! Imagine for a moment that the student described is later out on the line while her CA is dealing with an issue, and she decides that his perspective is a little off and decides to intervene... She's not only on probation, but worse: she's in training! That she was allowed to continue from that moment was a second chance not deserved. (Do you, Paladin145, understand the implications of the position that you've taken in your thesis on this one? Hope so at some point; find a mentor, they can help.)
2) again, not enough info; third hand. However, there are far better ways to deal with such misbehavior, if it was in that case. But again, its an instructor, who has earned the trust of that position, and without first hand (theres that phrase again) knowledge, its tough to say that the wrong call was made.
I dunno man. Whatever your motivation, I think you're creating boogie-men that don't exist, and at least by appearance, to dissuade people from an otherwise solid company, or maybe just to build some internet forum credibility. Nothing wrong with saying "yeah, I think ______ " if someone asks your opinion, but you're trying to come off informed when you aren't, and I think it's to the detriment of the reader (and folks out getting the job done).
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