Regional/Major hiring for Unlucky Misdemeanor
07-10-2018, 09:49 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Position: Star Commander
Posts: 151
Originally Posted by kevbo
If you are completely on the hook for training expenses, don't try to be a pilot. You will never recoup unless you make the majors early in life. Most of your competition is VERY well sponsored and will get that opportunity long before you will! The big money is at the top so the last guys to get picked never see it.
07-10-2018, 10:56 AM
#52
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,227
Originally Posted by mikey1029
So many people have been saying dont bust check rides. Is it hard?
Others say dont bust more than 2 or 3. Ive never taken a check ride so I dont know but seems a little harsh to not be hireable for failing a couple tests when eventually you will pass. Once again I dont know about it so I might be talking out of my a**.
I hope it is not very hard. If I prepare and know all the material before hand just like studying for a test, will I never fail a check ride?
I also have excellent hand eye coordination. And it might not be the same but while most of peers failed driving license test and took it several times, I passed it on the first go when I was 16. Driving came really easy for me. Its mostly feeling for me and I usually never second guess myself. I can drive through the tightest of ally ways no problem while maintaining a proper speed. (not the ally ways in America haha more like the ones in Asia and Europe) Does that correlate with flying at all?
Ive riden in planes alot and flew once sitting shotgun.
Others say dont bust more than 2 or 3. Ive never taken a check ride so I dont know but seems a little harsh to not be hireable for failing a couple tests when eventually you will pass. Once again I dont know about it so I might be talking out of my a**.
I hope it is not very hard. If I prepare and know all the material before hand just like studying for a test, will I never fail a check ride?
I also have excellent hand eye coordination. And it might not be the same but while most of peers failed driving license test and took it several times, I passed it on the first go when I was 16. Driving came really easy for me. Its mostly feeling for me and I usually never second guess myself. I can drive through the tightest of ally ways no problem while maintaining a proper speed. (not the ally ways in America haha more like the ones in Asia and Europe) Does that correlate with flying at all?
Ive riden in planes alot and flew once sitting shotgun.
The academics are similar to what you're familiar with from school, and will tested by written and oral exams. That sort of stuff is generally about 80% to pass, except certain things like aircraft limitations and emergency memory items may require 100% to pass. Your first airline training event will be big wakeup call for most (unless you've done engineering, law, medicine or some military equivalent), it makes most college programs look like preschool. "Drinking from a Firehose of Knowledge" is the usual analogy.
Checkrides are different than what you're used to from school, there are many things going on, you have to fly the aircraft, execute the profiles, properly deal with emergencies, navigate, and communicate with ATC. You can't be doing all of those things at once, so you have to prioritize.
Simulator checkrides will be used for very complex turbine aircraft. The bad news is it's very complex. The good news is that it has an autopilot so you can mostly focus on managing the problems. Better news is that outside interruptions are generated by the instructor, so they will be timed reasonably and not likely to overload you.
Airplane checkrides are used for light piston aircraft. The good news is those planes are easy to hand fly. The bad news is they don't have autopilots (you won't be allowed to use it on a checkride even if one's installed). The worse news is that you're flying in the real world, so in addition to instructions/problems injected by the examiner, you have to deal with real ATC, other aircraft, and weather... none of that is predictable, and it may overload you. Also if you get a real emergency on a checkride, you have to handle that as well! I know a guy whose CPL ride was interrupted by a low altitude engine failure... after he landed in an empty parking lot (early Sunday am) the examiner told him "good job, you get a discontinuance and we'll finish it up on another day". If the examiner had had to take control, it would have been a failure!
There are also other uncontrollable factors...
- Instructor sucks.
- Examiner is in a bad mood, having a bad day, doesn't "click" with you, etc. Personality can be a factor.
- Aircraft mechanical problem.
- Sim partner sucks
- You have a bad day.
So unfortunately, lots of intangibles. Study and practice are huge predictors of success, but there's no guarantee. Most folks will likely fail one training event at some point in the career. You can improve your odds tremendously with work ethic, but there's no way to be absolutely foolproof... too many variables.
07-10-2018, 11:19 AM
#53
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,227
Originally Posted by kevbo
If you are completely on the hook for training expenses, don't try to be a pilot. You will never recoup unless you make the majors early in life. Most of your competition is VERY well sponsored and will get that opportunity long before you will! The big money is at the top so the last guys to get picked never see it.
Originally Posted by Space Ranger
Completely false.
The system is seniority based, so the younger you get in the better you're going to make out.
For fastest possible progression, it's best to be the child of a legacy airline pilot:
1) Family money for school/training. Access to GA aircraft.
2) Mentoring that is unavailable to most kids who might want to be a pilot.
3) Industry connections.
That can get you to a Big Six airline as young as mid/late 20's, if you don't screw anything up.
If you have to go it alone, the military would be the best option, no debt, you can get college and flight training paid for, have connections, but you won't get to a major before early 30's.
A civilian going it alone is just going to take longer, since he has to limit his college/training to what he can pay for based on his current income. To move that along quickly would require a very single-minded focus for many years (ie eat/sleep/work/school, repeat). Connections will be acquired over time in the industry.
The military option is hardest, and you have to start young to get a mil college scholarship (ie HS grades/tests scores/athletics). The self-funded civilian option is probably the longest, and least guaranteed, but it's certainly doable.
But no need to get bitter because some old guys did it the hard way 50 years ago and now want to take care of their kids... that's the way the world turns.
07-10-2018, 10:37 PM
#55
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by rickair7777
It's complicated. Hand eye coordination is not really that big of a deal, it helps if you're athletic, and you cannot be a complete klutz. It's much more about multi-tasking and prioritization.
The academics are similar to what you're familiar with from school, and will tested by written and oral exams. That sort of stuff is generally about 80% to pass, except certain things like aircraft limitations and emergency memory items may require 100% to pass. Your first airline training event will be big wakeup call for most (unless you've done engineering, law, medicine or some military equivalent), it makes most college programs look like preschool. "Drinking from a Firehose of Knowledge" is the usual analogy.
Checkrides are different than what you're used to from school, there are many things going on, you have to fly the aircraft, execute the profiles, properly deal with emergencies, navigate, and communicate with ATC. You can't be doing all of those things at once, so you have to prioritize.
Simulator checkrides will be used for very complex turbine aircraft. The bad news is it's very complex. The good news is that it has an autopilot so you can mostly focus on managing the problems. Better news is that outside interruptions are generated by the instructor, so they will be timed reasonably and not likely to overload you.
Airplane checkrides are used for light piston aircraft. The good news is those planes are easy to hand fly. The bad news is they don't have autopilots (you won't be allowed to use it on a checkride even if one's installed). The worse news is that you're flying in the real world, so in addition to instructions/problems injected by the examiner, you have to deal with real ATC, other aircraft, and weather... none of that is predictable, and it may overload you. Also if you get a real emergency on a checkride, you have to handle that as well! I know a guy whose CPL ride was interrupted by a low altitude engine failure... after he landed in an empty parking lot (early Sunday am) the examiner told him "good job, you get a discontinuance and we'll finish it up on another day". If the examiner had had to take control, it would have been a failure!
There are also other uncontrollable factors...
- Instructor sucks.
- Examiner is in a bad mood, having a bad day, doesn't "click" with you, etc. Personality can be a factor.
- Aircraft mechanical problem.
- Sim partner sucks
- You have a bad day.
So unfortunately, lots of intangibles. Study and practice are huge predictors of success, but there's no guarantee. Most folks will likely fail one training event at some point in the career. You can improve your odds tremendously with work ethic, but there's no way to be absolutely foolproof... too many variables.
The academics are similar to what you're familiar with from school, and will tested by written and oral exams. That sort of stuff is generally about 80% to pass, except certain things like aircraft limitations and emergency memory items may require 100% to pass. Your first airline training event will be big wakeup call for most (unless you've done engineering, law, medicine or some military equivalent), it makes most college programs look like preschool. "Drinking from a Firehose of Knowledge" is the usual analogy.
Checkrides are different than what you're used to from school, there are many things going on, you have to fly the aircraft, execute the profiles, properly deal with emergencies, navigate, and communicate with ATC. You can't be doing all of those things at once, so you have to prioritize.
Simulator checkrides will be used for very complex turbine aircraft. The bad news is it's very complex. The good news is that it has an autopilot so you can mostly focus on managing the problems. Better news is that outside interruptions are generated by the instructor, so they will be timed reasonably and not likely to overload you.
Airplane checkrides are used for light piston aircraft. The good news is those planes are easy to hand fly. The bad news is they don't have autopilots (you won't be allowed to use it on a checkride even if one's installed). The worse news is that you're flying in the real world, so in addition to instructions/problems injected by the examiner, you have to deal with real ATC, other aircraft, and weather... none of that is predictable, and it may overload you. Also if you get a real emergency on a checkride, you have to handle that as well! I know a guy whose CPL ride was interrupted by a low altitude engine failure... after he landed in an empty parking lot (early Sunday am) the examiner told him "good job, you get a discontinuance and we'll finish it up on another day". If the examiner had had to take control, it would have been a failure!
There are also other uncontrollable factors...
- Instructor sucks.
- Examiner is in a bad mood, having a bad day, doesn't "click" with you, etc. Personality can be a factor.
- Aircraft mechanical problem.
- Sim partner sucks
- You have a bad day.
So unfortunately, lots of intangibles. Study and practice are huge predictors of success, but there's no guarantee. Most folks will likely fail one training event at some point in the career. You can improve your odds tremendously with work ethic, but there's no way to be absolutely foolproof... too many variables.
Rickair, you've been a tremendous help to me and I thank you for that.
I plan on updating my journey and being more active on this forum!
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