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questions on RATP

Old 08-27-2018, 06:17 AM
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Default questions on RATP

I have a question on attaining an RATP license. From my understanding, I can be 21 years old and attain an RATP. However, my question is, do I need to graduate with an aviation degree to be able to apply as a 21-year-old with the 1500 hours? Or can I simply apply to attain my RATP at age 21 even without an aviation degree (having 1500 hours of course)? I am hoping to major in aerospace engineering but most of the colleges that offer these aviation degrees that lower your time requirements (1250 or 1000) are focused more on the management side which does not really interest me. Thanks guys, this forum has really helped me a lot!
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Old 08-27-2018, 08:15 AM
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The age 21 RATP allowance is specified for 61.160, not 61.159.

So that should mean you have to meet one of the three 61.160 categories to get an RATP at age 21.

I wouldn't sweat the extra 500 hours, if you want an aero engineering degree, get one. You'll learn more and have a solid backup degree if you ever need one.
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Old 08-27-2018, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by diego5614 View Post
I have a question on attaining an RATP license. From my understanding, I can be 21 years old and attain an RATP. However, my question is, do I need to graduate with an aviation degree to be able to apply as a 21-year-old with the 1500 hours? Or can I simply apply to attain my RATP at age 21 even without an aviation degree (having 1500 hours of course)? I am hoping to major in aerospace engineering but most of the colleges that offer these aviation degrees that lower your time requirements (1250 or 1000) are focused more on the management side which does not really interest me. Thanks guys, this forum has really helped me a lot!
The degree program itself has to be approved and the Instrument and Commercial training must be completed via Part 141 in conjunction with the degree, so you'll have to check with each specific university if they have an approved R-ATP engineering degree. I've never heard of a school offering one, but I've also never researched it.

It's my (unqualified) understanding that if a school offers it, you could theoretically get a 4-year approved engineering degree and qualify for the 1,000 hour or 1,250 hour R-ATP as long as you take X amount of credits that were approved. The primary focus would then be to find if there's an Aerospace Engineering degree out there that is approved at a certain school which also enables you to take enough electives to at least qualify for the 1,250 hour.

So for your questions:

Do you need to graduate with an aviation degree to be able to apply as a 21 year old with the 1500 hours? A 21 year old with 1,500 hours does not need a degree (let alone an aviation degree) to apply for the unrestricted ATP.

Same question above with 1,000 hours? You would be targeting the R-ATP then, so yes you'd need an approved degree with the Instrument and Commercial flight training done via Part 141.

Or can I simply apply to attain my R-ATP at age 21 even without an aviation degree (having 1500 hours of course)? This goes back to your first question... with 1,500 hours you're not targeting the Restricted ATP anymore, you can just go for the regular unrestricted ATP.

The trade-off that you'll most likely be facing is to do one of the following:
1. Get an approved aviation degree (non-engineering) with your flight training for the R-ATP.
2. Get an engineering degree and take the traditional, longer route to 1,500 hours and apply for the unrestricted ATP.
3. Get lucky and find a school that offers an engineering degree that is also approved for the R-ATP, then take your flight training through the same school and take enough approved electives to qualify for at least the 1,250 hour R-ATP.

Good luck, hope you find something that works well for you.
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Old 08-27-2018, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Stoked27 View Post
Do you need to graduate with an aviation degree to be able to apply as a 21 year old with the 1500 hours? A 21 year old with 1,500 hours does not need a degree (let alone an aviation degree) to apply for the unrestricted ATP.

Or can I simply apply to attain my R-ATP at age 21 even without an aviation degree (having 1500 hours of course)? This goes back to your first question... with 1,500 hours you're not targeting the Restricted ATP anymore, you can just go for the regular unrestricted ATP.


EDIT: Correction, this part of FAR 61.160 does allow for age 21 with 1500 hours:

61.160 (f) A person who has 1,500 hours total time as a pilot, 200 hours of cross-country flight time, and otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of §61.159 may apply for an airline transport pilot certificate under this section.

61.153 (a) (2) For an airline transport pilot certificate obtained under the aeronautical experience requirements of §61.160, be at least 21 years of age.

Last edited by rickair7777; 08-27-2018 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Correction
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Old 08-27-2018, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Stoked27 View Post
The degree program itself has to be approved and the Instrument and Commercial training must be completed via Part 141 in conjunction with the degree, so you'll have to check with each specific university if they have an approved R-ATP engineering degree. I've never heard of a school offering one, but I've also never researched it.

It's my (unqualified) understanding that if a school offers it, you could theoretically get a 4-year approved engineering degree and qualify for the 1,000 hour or 1,250 hour R-ATP as long as you take X amount of credits that were approved. The primary focus would then be to find if there's an Aerospace Engineering degree out there that is approved at a certain school which also enables you to take enough electives to at least qualify for the 1,250 hour.
In theory such a degree could be offered. You'd have to do the research to see if anyone does it. Another possibility might be dual degree, time and cost depending on overlap of the degree requirements.
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Old 08-27-2018, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
All wrong. The ONLY way to get any sort of ATP under age 23 is to be eligible for an RATP under 61.160 (military pilot, two-year degree, or four-year degree).
Thanks for correcting me, I was under the impression it was age 21.
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Old 08-27-2018, 11:23 AM
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So, pretty much, even if I had 1500 hours by 21 years old, I would still need to be enrolled in an approved degree in Order to get my RATP? Wow, this whole time I thought that I could get the RATP at 21 as long as I had my 1500 hours regardless if I was enrolled in an approved degree.
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by diego5614 View Post
So, pretty much, even if I had 1500 hours by 21 years old, I would still need to be enrolled in an approved degree in Order to get my RATP? Wow, this whole time I thought that I could get the RATP at 21 as long as I had my 1500 hours regardless if I was enrolled in an approved degree.
You would need to qualify for an RATP under 61.160, so you would need to have actually completed (not just enrolled in) an approved two or four year degree program.

You could also do it as a military pilot, but that's mathematically very hard to accomplish prior to age 23, essentially impossible unless you're an army warrant helo pilot. Even then it would still be hard to get selected, complete training, and acquire 750 hours before age 23.
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:58 PM
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Used to was and, may still be so, if you meet all the unrestricted ATP requirements, you could take the check ride and the FAA would issue you the certificate on your 23rd birthday. I knew a bunch of you CFIs that did that back in the day. The CTP requirement might be an blocker now.

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Old 08-27-2018, 06:45 PM
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Default questions on RATP

you were originally correct, but your correction is invalid.

It is possible to get your r-atp at 1500 hours being 21 years of age without a part 141 accredited aviation degree program.

From FAA press release:

Airline Transport Pilot Certificate with restricted privileges

At least 21 years old;
Hold commercial pilot certificate with instrument rating;
Successfully complete new ATP Certification Training Program prior to taking the ATP knowledge test (after July 31, 2014);
Pass ATP knowledge and practical tests; and
At least 750 hours total time as (military pilots); or
At least 1,000 hours total time as pilot and a Bachelor's degree with an aviation major; or
At least 1,250 hours total time as pilot and an Associate's degree with an aviation major; OR
1,500 total time as a pilot.

As the last line suggests, as long as you meet the 1500 hour requirement, you are eligible for the r-atp at 21


From Mesa airlines website:

Restricted ATP 1500 Hours Total Time Requirements
1500 hours Total Flight Time
200 hours Cross Country Time
100 hours Total Night Time
25 hours Multi Engine Time, Fixed Wing
250 hours of Pilot in Command Time, Fixed wing
75 hours of Instrument Time
Commercial Pilot Certificate with Multi Engine and Instrument ratings
Current FAA First Class Medical Certificate
Ability to demonstrate instrument proficiency
ATP Written (CTP training can be provided to qualified applicants)
FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit
Current Valid Passport
At least 21 years of age
Legally authorized to work in the U.S.
Able to pass security background check and FAA mandated drug test
High school diploma or GED
Ability to read and speak English language

Again, this reiterates the fact that a restricted atp is possible to obtain at 21 years old, so long as you meet the 1500 hour requirement.

I hope the clarifies everything



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