Flow vs No Flow
 

Please direct me to the sub post area if the questions I have are already answered. I’ve used the keyword search up-teen different ways and can’t find it.

Simple. If nothing else in the post is addressed this is the info I’m after.
What is the minimum hours needed to even be considered at the majors?
And then what’s the actual hours to be reasonably competitive?

Trying to decide if a regional with flow is really needed vs it doesn’t really matter for me. There is no guarantee of timeline to flow anyway based on all my reading. I have reasonable amount of total time just no fixed wing turbine or 121 time currently.
Hence why I ask about the hours. I may not need the 6 years to build total time to be competitive like some others coming in with little to no total time.

Of course this is only a piece to the puzzle. Domicile is pretty important to me as well as future major airline domicile. I’d love for them to end up being the same place in the end. We can all dream right.

Thanks

You can't go wrong with Flo

https://media2.fdncms.com/clevescene...408324/flo.jpg

Put 7 years at a regional 3 of them as captain. Now in the supplemental world.
Had I gone to a flow place such PSAback in the day, I'd be flowing to my dream job Shortly.
If you have time to pay your dues, go with the flow. Pun intended.
Hella not flowing.

I prefer this Flo
https://i.imgur.com/z8pcXW2.jpg

The flow is a B plan. Always try to get to any job through the front door. I was at envoy for 6 years, got hired by Delta. My buddies that decided to stay, will be flowing by April/May. Some of them, didnt even tried to apply anywhere. By the time they are done with training, I’ll be half way of yr 3 pay scale. By the time they are getting 2nd yr pay, I’ll be in 4.5 pay scale.

Your 2nd yr pay at AA starts the date you finished OE, not your hired date.

Total time is variable depending on your overall package, but going with a conservative number, somewhere between 4-7,000 hrs is the standard.

Flows are always a bad deal for pilots and the piloting profession. Consider:

• Companies, and sometimes unions, negotiate flow through agreements to perpetuate a farm-team theory, that one job flying the airline's passengers is much less than another job flying the exact same passengers
• The pilot-participant trades lower wages and working conditions for a promise of future employment at a mainline carrier. Airline management pretty much sucks at keeping promises due to the cyclical nature of the industry (often no fault of their own; fuel prices, 9/11, political instability (including in the US now))
• Pilots can be a strange bunch who measure themselves and each other by factors which have nothing to do with reality (Air Force v Navy, Military v Civillian, etc) A person who flowed without meeting the mainline carrier's hiring standards will often be viewed as <. Does it matter? Sometimes. At my airline a Air Force Academy grad usually has a faster track to whatever management or union job (if that's your thing)
• A flow gives you zero seniority. Others will jump in line in front of you
• A flow gives you zero longevity - still endure first-year pay

As someone who paid for my own college and ratings, I get that an applicant is looking for assurance that they will get to the brass ring and the investment of time and money will pay off. Let me assure you that if (1) you are a nice person who makes friends, who focuses on safety and the customer (2) are a mediocre pilot (3) can stay out of easily avoidable trouble (don't drink and drive, don't smart off to cops, etc) you will make it. Even the difference between a two or three year tenure at a regional carrier and a six year (or longer when the regional gets short-staffed and holds you back) is easily several million dollars over a career. Guys 1,000 numbers senior to me at a 14,500 pilot airline easily out earn me by $50,000 a year. Their lives are a lot less stressful because they avoid some really crappy flying. They are enjoying more vacation and started their 401K's in earnest years before I did.

This business is a line. Get yourself in the best line as soon as you can. No sense waiting in a line that isn't moving.

You make some good points, however I don’t see how having a flow in your back pocket is a bad thing. I would never just sit back and wait for the flow though. You can still hustle to try to get hired, but if for some reason you don’t get the call, you have it as a backup plan. There are still a lot of great pilots trying to get an interview....All that said I didn’t go through any flow but they weren’t prevalent when I was in the regionals, but if I were there today I would consider it. It wouldn’t be my sole deciding factor but I would consider it as something to put down as a pro when making a decision.

Thank to all for the input and the memes.

So all in all this is what I have deduced as well from all my research. Flow as a backup is fine but don’t have it as a sole decision point, apply early and often as you can rather than wait for your number. So the total time I already exceed the low end of that so by the time I get 121 time atnthe regional as far total time I’ll be right in the mix so thats good to know. I also understand there is more to it and those numbers are hard fast numbers.

So say I am with PSA or other AA WO with a flow. Generally speaking will AA consider me prior to my “flow number” so to speak? So did I understand it right that even if AA wanted to hire th WO could hold me back due to needs etc?

Thanks again all.

Unless it's changed, you should be able to apply off the street to AA.

Flow is a very good backup. Historically flow programs have been very unreliable but this one should hold up for a while due to all of the retirements.

All else being equal, I would choose an AA regional. If that would be a geographic hardship, I would have to consider carefully, tough call.

If you have skeletons in the background, I would try real hard to get on with an AA regional

You pay big money to have that flow. In a lot of cases, Endeavor FO's are making more than AA wholly owned captains. If they have a strong resume, those same Endeavor FO's will make it to mainline quicker.