ECAMMemo

After batting 100% I finally got my first bust. I am doing 141 training and it was the End of Course flight for the CPL ME IR course. It was done in house so no pink slip, if that matters. The flight was just about done and after the emergency descent I went to retract the gear, making sure I was well below VLO of 109. The gear didn't come up because the instructor pulled the breaker to simulate a pump failure, no big deal- just run the checklist. Ran the checklist, pushed the breaker in and like an idiot when i read- Gear Handle Up- I did it without checking my speed and in the time I ran the list I accelerated to 111, busting the flight. Did a review and passed the course.



I actually had a very valuable debrief after the bust and the instructor said what could have prevented the overspeed was to verbally say "speed check gear up/down/flaps" when making any configuration change. And after much reflecting I also looked at my thought process during checklists. I had this mentality of "hurry up and get the list done!" When in reality there are only a few abnormal procedures that need immediate attention, the gear being down isn't one of them. Get the plane stabilized, get the AP on, and take my time. So, this was actually a good learning experience for me, albeit at the cost of a bust.


I must say, I have been losing some sleep over this. Frantically googling "airline career and checkride bust." My dream since I was a little kid has been to be an airline pilot at a legacy one day flying widebodies and I feel like that is ruined now.



I'm just wondering how this will impact my future with getting on with a legacy such as DL, AA, UAL? I have a very strong GPA of 3.9, am prior military (enlisted), tutor students at school, do volunteer work. But I just can't shake this feeling that this bust is a huge black mark on my record that will cancel all the other stuff out. Phew, it felt good typing this out. I look forward to some replies and advice!

Bucknut

First of all it is not a "bust" it is a failure to meet to the standards. Learn from it and move on. There are many pilots that have failed a checkride and have accomplished careers.

Bahamasflyer

Is it REALLY a bust if one didn't receive a "pink slip" from a DPE/Fed/checkairman?

I have trouble believing what the OP describes is really a jeopardy event, unlike an actual checkride/PC.

PerfInit

Dude, RELAX... We are all human, and humans make mistakes. Turn this into a huge positive. If you were NOT issued an FAA Form Titled “Notice of Disapproval of Application”, then tecnically you did not “bust” the ride.

ECAMMemo

I definitely did learn from this error and it made me a better pilot because of it. Ok, so then let me rephrase. Is it a huge deal if I have a 141 stage check unsat in my logbook? I will definitely report it on my applications when they ask for 141 training failures

Fixnem2Flyinem

You’re hosed man, may as well stop now and get a regular job. Thousands out there with zero busts and a 4.0 in college so you’ll be bottom of the barrel, how do you like the thought of the left seat of an RJ for the next 20 years? I mean the 175 is pretty much mainline with jet bridges in big airports and all. **Sarcasm**

You will be fine, just learn from the failure and course correct. If that is the only failure you have in your training and career you will have zero issues making it to a wide body. If you do end up explaining it down the line at an interview, make sure to state it was an in house 141 progress check. I’m willing to bet the panel won’t even care about it. Safe Flying and try to relax a little bit, you will be fine!!

ECAMMemo

Thanks for the replies! I know I need to relax, everyone’s been telling me. It’s just that I’ve worked so hard to do everything right and be the absolute best candidate that I can be that it makes me paranoid that something like this will close doors for me or make my lifelong dream not possible

JamesNoBrakes

The way that an approved 141 course works is that you get your certificate/rating as a result of graduating the course, not passing an individual lesson. Although the "end" lesson is conducted as a check, it doesn't count as a "checkride failure" and nothing goes on your pilot record in Oklahoma City. The 8710 form is only submitted after you have completed the course, unlike 61 where it's filled out and submitted after the checkride regardless of the outcome.

That said, if an airline asks if you've ever had a "checkride failure", it's probably best to answer "yes" and be completely honest. You didn't fail a practical test for certificate and/or rating, you failed and end of course test, but it's more on the perception of the beholder as to if these are really different things. What you are trying to avoid is not mentioning something that the airline discovers, then it looks like you are being deceitful and they usually have no tolerance for that.

The school on the other hand is required to maintain a passing rate for the "practical test", so while it doesn't necessarily count against the pilot, it does count against the school and they may not be able to renew their school's certificate unless they can maintain a high enough passing rate.

No one is perfect and it's understood that a pilot may fail a check early on. What they are looking out for is patterns of failures. This is not required to be "pulled" by the airlines, but most do this in addition to the basic PRIA requirements, so checkride failures (part 61) do show up, but again no pilot department is going to seriously hold a failure like that against a pilot, they are looking for patterns of failures, multiple repeats for multiple certificates, repeated failed 135/121 checks, etc.

sourdough44

Continue to move forward, chit happens, not the end of the world, or your dreams.

Just keep improving the rest of your background, it will become a minor blip.

rickair7777

This.

As an experienced 141 instructor, I can easily spot a "failed" EOC check in your logbook (if you went flying). If you failed the oral and did not fly that would not be in your logbook.

I would assume that some airline interviewers have figured out how to do that as well.

Part of the problem with 141 is many airlines don't seem to explicitly ask about 141 EOC checks, so they leave it up to you to guess what they really mean.