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Terminated, seeking advice.

Old 06-17-2019, 01:05 PM
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I was just let go from a large regional airline after failing my second attempt at upgrade (OE). I would greatly appreciate any advice on where I could/should try to apply next. This is the only issue I’ve ever had in aviation. I have approximately 4,200tt. 2,800 multi turbine, all in the ERJ-175. Thanks for the input.
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Old 06-17-2019, 01:39 PM
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Were you represented by a pilot union? If yes, talk to your union rep.
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SurfFly1903 View Post
I was just let go from a large regional airline after failing my second attempt at upgrade (OE). I would greatly appreciate any advice on where I could/should try to apply next. This is the only issue I’ve ever had in aviation. I have approximately 4,200tt. 2,800 multi turbine, all in the ERJ-175. Thanks for the input.
First of all, what do YOU think happened?
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:04 PM
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This was a captain upgrade? What’s your background-checkride failures, previous terminations etc.?

I assume you were represented at the termination.


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Old 06-17-2019, 02:08 PM
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I was represented by our union. They didn’t seem to be much help however. My issue was they discontinued OE after an incomplete OBS ride. What happened is that I placed way too much pressure on myself and didn’t perform well. This upgrade was a bit of a nightmare scenario for me. I definitely studied, I just let the pressure get to me.
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:43 PM
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Why were you terminated? I didn't think anyone still had an up or out policy? Were you a DEC?

If there is more backstory which led to termination, then you'll have to address that, in addition to the training issue.

If the termination was simply an "up or out" policy or DEC new-hire, then the only issue you need to address is why you did not complete the training.

If you were a DEC with no previous experience in type or at that airline, then it's not too big a deal. Go get another regional job, get some right seat time, and then upgrade in the SAME aircraft.

If your previous experience was in the same aircraft, that's going to be a problem because upgrade should be pretty simple in a type in which you have thousands of hours. In that case some soul-searching is in order. You could again get another regional job, just be aware that this is going to be harder to explain.

Either way you can probably overcome this, although you won't get called by the bigs as quickly, and will have to address this at an interview. Also depends on previous training failures. If this is part of a pattern, that's not good... you're probably limited to LCC majors (unless you can get on with an AA WO).
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:51 PM
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I don't know what happened and may be way off base, but you were either unprepared, your airline has really bad training and an ineffective union, or you can't handle pressure.

Unprepared - Unless you bid left seat in a plane you had zero time in (not recommended if your airline has a poor training department), the only thing new to you should have been captain duties. And ideally, you should have been learning those duties as soon you got comfortable in the right seat (200ish hours). Lots of people sit in the right seat and absorb nothing thinking upgrade training will give them the "secret" captain training.

Bad training - If your airline training department is corrupt and bad (very rare, but it does happen), then that sucks, but you won't be able to use that as an excuse. I know a few people who got screwed in training, but there is no way to explain it on an application or an interview.

Too much pressure - I don't know how you managed to get this far in your career without learning how to manage pressure. By 4,200 hours, you have had about 6 GA checkrides, 1 or 2 type rides (conducted to PIC standards), and a few recurrent cycles. Dealing with stress and pressure is part of the job. If you think following the syllabus of a highly structured training program is hard, how are you going to handle making a high speed abort decision on the line when you aren't expecting it?

What's done is done and there isn't a shortcut you can take to make it go away. The only thing that will fix this is time. You need to establish a good training record and eventually pass upgrade training anywhere. Don't worry about getting hired at a major yet, worry about being the best pilot you can. That means not only mastering the FO duties at your next outfit, but being 100% aware of all the captain duties. Try to get in the training department. If you were a CFI before, than you may remember how much you learned simply from teaching. Sitting in the back of a sim gives you an entirely new perspective that will not only help in line flying but will also help take down the barrier some pilots build between flight training and line operations.

The majors will start lowering their hiring standards as time passes too. At some point your improved training record will intersect the dwindling pool of major airline applicants and you may get a call. Pick a regional with a good reputation that you don't mind hanging out for a few years.
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Old 06-17-2019, 05:21 PM
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This was Skywest, right? I think every other regional has a contractual clause to return you to your previous seat, or have effective union protection, if you fail upgrade.
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dera View Post
This was Skywest, right? I think every other regional has a contractual clause to return you to your previous seat, or have effective union protection, if you fail upgrade.
Skywest did away with up-or-out many years ago (but that was fun upgrading on a new plane with that hanging over your head, let me tell you). You would *normally* return to your previous seat, although at ANY airline you would have to successfully complete retraining for the old seat. That last would be an FAA requirement.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:26 PM
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2Stg, thanks for the reply. I was offered the option to resign. So I technically wasn’t terminated. But this is now part of my trading record. So anyone will be able to put two and two together. I have never failed a check ride before this upgrade.
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