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Firefighter considering career change

Old 08-12-2019, 03:54 PM
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Default Firefighter considering career change

Long story short, I’m a 26 year old firefighter thinking about a career change to aviation. I’m currently at a “stepping stone department” with mediocre pay/benefits, and I’m at a crossroads as to whether invest my energy in getting onto a better department or a career change. Here’s an outline of what I’m considering and I’m wondering if you guys can either correct my misconceptions or give me some advice.

Lifestyle: lifestyle is by far the most important consideration for me in a career. There are two big factors that I’m worried about: travel and schedule. The schedule is one of the best things about the job in my opinion. I work a 24 hour shift and then have two days off, and often swap shifts with my coworkers, so I have a lot of flexibility before I even begin to dip into my vacation time. If I get on a better department I’ll get a day off every three weeks built into my calendar. I love to travel, and the fire department schedule has allowed me to travel quite a bit. From what I’ve read there seems to be much less flexibility with a pilots schedule. I don’t have a good sense if I would have more off days as a pilot or a firefighter. However, for what it’s worth when I’m on at the firehouse, my fiancé can come up and visit, I can help her with stuff when I have down time, and family can come up and visit when I work holidays. As a pilot, when you’re gone you’re gone. As far as lifestyle, it seems as though firefighting has the advantage. It’s really heavily dependent on the schedule, which I need to learn more about.

Pay/benefits: I think a career in aviation has the advantage. On average, pilots make significantly more money. If I get on a fire department I’m shooting for, I’ll make 70k to low six figures throughout my career in a low cost of living area, with the range depending on how I do in promotions. The big benefit would be a pension and the ability to retire in my early 50s, but there’s no guarantee politicians don’t steal from it. The other ads range of firefighting is job security. With aviation there is a much higher ceiling for salary.

The work: This is a bit of a wash. I think I’d enjoy the actual nuts and bolts of being a pilot as much as I enjoy firefighting. It’s exciting work that’s both cerebral and hands on. However I would really miss the “fringe benefits”. It’s incredibly rewarding to be a public servant, I have a deep connection to the community I serve, and at the risk of sounding corny the firehouse really is a family and brotherhood. I could volunteer, but it wouldn’t be the same. I worry about the loneliness of the pilots lifestyle.

A couple questions:

What can I expect schedule wise early and mid career? The last thing I want is a regular 9 to 5, but I do value flexibility and plenty of time off. I read about the nuts and bolts of scheduling in the r/flying FAQ, but I'm wondering about big picture stuff. How long would it take to be working 10 days or less a month? The goal for travel/vacation is to take one or two one-month "sabbaticals" a year. These can include unpaid leave. Could I realistically expect to get that within ~5 years?

How likely is it that I would be able to get a job out of flight school in the first place (I have an unrelated bachelors so I just need to knock out flight school)? How likely is it that I would make it to the major airlines?

Are there any options for working part-time?

How limited would I be if I'm tied to one location/airport?

Big picture, what do you guys think? Should I keep looking into pursuing a career as a pilot or stick to firefighting?
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Old 08-12-2019, 04:41 PM
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I’m in the exact same boat. I’m currently 28 years old and 5 years into a career department. We are a smaller department so the next scheduled promotion is a few years away at-least. I am a paramedic also but have very little left in student loans for that. I’ve been reading these forums for awhile and talking to local flight schools as moving away to attend ATP or something similar is probably not feasible for me with a wife and kids.
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Old 08-13-2019, 06:00 AM
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Once you get a Commercial & CFI you can live(frugally) as a full time instructor at a flight school, FL & AZ two of the most common. Once you have the required flight hours, you ‘should’ be hired at a regional.

The above assumes you don’t have any skeletons & no medical troubles.

You have to work in the trenches a while, years, before moving to better schedules. Even then, seniority in a seat is what dictates bidding horsepower.

Under 30 with a degree already, it’s doable for many, initiative & $$$ are always key. If married, family support is another important factor.

There are ways to test the water some before letting go of a current occupation, local flight training. Once you get your sea legs, & like it, faith may be needed.

It’s hard to say who can do what. The potential pilot with a silver platter can stumble, where the next excels as they jump hurdles along the way.
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by curiousfireman2 View Post
Lifestyle: lifestyle is by far the most important consideration for me in a career. There are two big factors that I’m worried about: travel and schedule. The schedule is one of the best things about the job in my opinion. I work a 24 hour shift and then have two days off, and often swap shifts with my coworkers, so I have a lot of flexibility before I even begin to dip into my vacation time. If I get on a better department I’ll get a day off every three weeks built into my calendar. I love to travel, and the fire department schedule has allowed me to travel quite a bit. From what I’ve read there seems to be much less flexibility with a pilots schedule. I don’t have a good sense if I would have more off days as a pilot or a firefighter. However, for what it’s worth when I’m on at the firehouse, my fiancé can come up and visit, I can help her with stuff when I have down time, and family can come up and visit when I work holidays. As a pilot, when you’re gone you’re gone. As far as lifestyle, it seems as though firefighting has the advantage. It’s really heavily dependent on the schedule, which I need to learn more about.
The schedule is quite variable, and generally improves significantly with seniority.

Entry level is reserve where you're on call for about 12 hours/day for (usually) 4-6 days in a row. Typically you have two hours to be inside security at the airport. The daily 12 "off" is not guaranteed at all, they could call you in the last five min on call on day one and send you on a trip for the rest of your reserve days (maybe extending into your days off). Reserve is not fun at regionals, typically 10-12 scheduled days off. At some majors reserve goes very senior because they rarely use them, so you get paid to hang out at home.

Regional schedules are inherently harder than majors as a rule. You have to block about 80 hours/month in the airline business. A regional day typically consists of 3-5+ shorter legs/day. Since you credit block time when the plane is moving the 1 hour+ between flights is wasted time as far as your personal efficiency goes. You can work 12 hours to block four hours, so you'd have to work 20 (long) days/month to get to 80. Some regionals, in some bases on the larger RJ's can have schedules which resemble a major airline.

Majors are better because, on average, the bigger planes fly longer legs. If you block 6-8 hours in 1-2 legs, you would only have to work maybe 12 days/month. And the work days are easy... most of your time is spent in cruise flight just hanging out and answering the radio.

Originally Posted by curiousfireman2 View Post
Pay/benefits: I think a career in aviation has the advantage. On average, pilots make significantly more money. If I get on a fire department I’m shooting for, I’ll make 70k to low six figures throughout my career in a low cost of living area, with the range depending on how I do in promotions. The big benefit would be a pension and the ability to retire in my early 50s, but there’s no guarantee politicians don’t steal from it. The other ads range of firefighting is job security. With aviation there is a much higher ceiling for salary.
You can do a spreadsheet. I'd do two versions, one with conservative career progression to a major, and one for staying at a regional. Those are your two reasonable best and worst cases.

But generally it's going to pay better than fire fighting, police, etc even at the regionals. Bear in mind that while regional pay has improved, the regional industry is NOT stable long term... look at the regional forums under Compass and Gojet. Planning to hang your hat as a senior regional CA is not really a safe bet, more of a planned fallback position. Try real hard to get to a major... the industry in general is subject to unpredictable behavior but majors should be a bit more stable, ie most are too big to fail right now while regionals can be (and have been) intentionally liquidated by their major partners. Problem there is if you've invested 10+ years and are a senior CA, you have to start all over at the bottom somewhere else... maybe a major if you're lucky but usually another regional. Seniority is never portable from one airline to another.

Major pay will quickly get to $200K and then top out $400-500K (narrowbodies) or $500-700k after many decades if your airline has widebodies. A handful of folks are even making way more than that right now.


Originally Posted by curiousfireman2 View Post
The work: This is a bit of a wash. I think I’d enjoy the actual nuts and bolts of being a pilot as much as I enjoy firefighting. It’s exciting work that’s both cerebral and hands on. However I would really miss the “fringe benefits”. It’s incredibly rewarding to be a public servant, I have a deep connection to the community I serve, and at the risk of sounding corny the firehouse really is a family and brotherhood. I could volunteer, but it wouldn’t be the same. I worry about the loneliness of the pilots lifestyle.
As a military guy I stayed in the reserves, and that's one of the reasons. You're not alone in airlines, there's another pilot and FA's but unless you're in a very small base you'll often (usually) fly with folks you've never met before. There's some opportunity for social life and comradeship but it's personality driven and hit and miss. Like you said volunteer activities can be an outlet and you should eventually have enough time off to do that.


Originally Posted by curiousfireman2 View Post
A couple questions:
What can I expect schedule wise early and mid career? The last thing I want is a regular 9 to 5, but I do value flexibility and plenty of time off. I read about the nuts and bolts of scheduling in the r/flying FAQ, but I'm wondering about big picture stuff. How long would it take to be working 10 days or less a month? The goal for travel/vacation is to take one or two one-month "sabbaticals" a year. These can include unpaid leave. Could I realistically expect to get that within ~5 years?
Unpaid leave is only offered in times of economic trouble or if an airline is making a fleet transition and can't train all of it's pilots for the type all at once. Don't plan on that as a matter of course.

An airline career is always a tradeoff between career progression and seniority. If you're very aggressive (which I recommend) you will not sit tight and enjoy the scheduling benefits of your seniority, but rather take the next career step (upgrade, new type, major job) at the earliest opportunity. Once you get to your career-destination major, then you can kick back and relax.

But with a some seniority, you can typically enjoy significant schedule flexibility, especially in the airline off seasons (mid Jan-Feb, mid Sep- mid Nov). Somewhat depends on the employer, some regionals work you like a dog in a very inefficient manner.

Originally Posted by curiousfireman2 View Post
How likely is it that I would be able to get a job out of flight school in the first place (I have an unrelated bachelors so I just need to knock out flight school)?
Essentially guaranteed that you can get a job, typically as a flight instructor. There's a shortage right now and the majors are retiring a lot more pilots over the next five years. Same with a regional job, as long as you don't have any felonies.

Originally Posted by curiousfireman2 View Post
How likely is it that I would make it to the major airlines?
If you hit the retirement wave (hurry!) I'd guess about 70% but that's artificially high due to all of the pending retirements. That's knowing almost nothing about you but assuming no real criminal history or any other public notoriety. I'm assuming you can pick up flying fine since you have a degree and are employed in a physical occupation.

Originally Posted by curiousfireman2 View Post
Are there any options for working part-time?
Formally no at airlines (corporate aviation is a possibility but probably not at the best jobs) . But most major jobs might as well be part time by normal standards.

Originally Posted by curiousfireman2 View Post
How limited would I be if I'm tied to one location/airport?
Potentially very limited. Unless it's New York, DC, Chicago, Dallas, LA, SFO, or SEA. Other than that you'll have to move or commute in order to progress in the career. Commuting is certainly possible and a very large number of pilots do it, but you'd really want to limit yourself to one short leg with multiple airline options. NY - LA will just suck. As will a 2 leg commute from some tiny rural town. But something like MCI-ORD would be OK. It depends on which airline(s) have bases in the two towns you live and work in. If there's not a lot of pilots going both ways, you normally can get the jumpseat without too much trouble even if the cabin's full.

Originally Posted by curiousfireman2 View Post
Big picture, what do you guys think? Should I keep looking into pursuing a career as a pilot or stick to firefighting?
Can't answer that for you. The potential rewards are great (financial + schedule) but there is risk and dues paying. Although the dues paying is measured in years right now, while in the recent past it's been measured in decades, so relatively speaking now's a great time.

Last edited by rickair7777; 08-13-2019 at 07:14 AM.
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:39 AM
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If I were you I would do this:

1) use 12K of savings or take out a loan. Get a PPL license over the course of the next 4 months by flying on the 20 days off a month you have.

2) use your unrelated bachelors degree to join a guard unit as an officer (at age 26 you’re still young enough) and go to flight school. They’ll take care of your instrument/multi/commercial requirements

3) Get a CFI civilian job

4) Continue flying in the guard as you enter the regional world. You’ll still get to serve the public and will rack up a resume to make you marketable to the majors.

You’ll be gone more but paid more
You’ll still travel for fun and for free
Your job will be relatively boring most days compared to firefighting but the guard could make up for it
You’ll still even get paid to relax and workout if you take advantage of layovers
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:09 AM
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IMHO, this thread represents APC at its best....unbiased, helpful information for those interested in pursuing this career.
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Old 08-13-2019, 12:45 PM
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Just an idea, but have you thought of EMT rotor pilot with or without military?

Kind of gives you a little bit of both worlds
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by curiousfireman2 View Post

The work: This is a bit of a wash. I think I’d enjoy the actual nuts and bolts of being a pilot as much as I enjoy firefighting. It’s exciting work that’s both cerebral and hands on. However I would really miss the “fringe benefits”. It’s incredibly rewarding to be a public servant, I have a deep connection to the community I serve, and at the risk of sounding corny the firehouse really is a family and brotherhood. I could volunteer, but it wouldn’t be the same. I worry about the loneliness of the pilots lifestyle.
I worry about this too. Coming from a corporate sales environment always working with customers and meeting up with coworkers. That combined with being away from family and friends at home base.
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:54 PM
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A lot to digest and all in all you're in a pretty good spot to make a well informed decision. As a fellow hose dragger, I can appreciate all the draws of the fire department schedule/life style. A couple of questions that came to mind right off the bat:

Do you like to fly? I know it sounds silly but you didn't mention any flying experience.

Is your pension portable from the current department to the next? We have a state system which many departments subscribe to and then there are several private systems. The point being, how far are you from vesting in the current system, how long to vest in the next? You may not desire to reach full retirement but vesting is mostly guaranteed retirement income...political attacks aside.

You have some time before you have to make a decision. While there may not be a viable p/t airline opportunity, there are things you can do to build your time on the way to 1500 while staying on the job. There aren't many careers that allow you to swap a shift to get five in a row, much less a Kelly day. You can do both for the foreseeable future. By that time you will have a better idea of what you want to do. While the Majors are the gold standard and certainly have the most earning potential, there are more than a handful of people that prefer other segments in aviation.
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Old 08-23-2019, 02:51 PM
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I too am a firefighter and currently going through the commercial phase then will be doing CFI after. It can be done and the pay difference would be pretty much lateral as I'm not getting paid much as well.
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