Failed checkride
09-02-2019, 01:39 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Sep 2019
Posts: 1
Failed checkride
I just started my training and was told by someone that failing a check ride would make it much more difficult in getting hired with an airline later on. Just curious, how would an airline find out if you failed a check ride? Is there a database they can check? Or is it just based on the honor system if they ask you directly on an application or during an interview?
Thanks
Thanks
09-02-2019, 01:48 PM
#2
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Joined APC: Aug 2013
Position: Light Chop Reporter
Posts: 318
Originally Posted by Suj490
I just started my training and was told by someone that failing a check ride would make it much more difficult in getting hired with an airline later on. Just curious, how would an airline find out if you failed a check ride? Is there a database they can check? Or is it just based on the honor system if they ask you directly on an application or during an interview?
Thanks
Thanks
09-02-2019, 01:59 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 521
If you have 1 failed check ride, you are probably ok. If you have 3 or 4...that's a different story.
Yes, there is a "database" and if you do lie about failed check rides, it will come up during your PRIA and background check.
Yes, there is a "database" and if you do lie about failed check rides, it will come up during your PRIA and background check.
09-02-2019, 02:50 PM
#5
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,216
Anyone can fail one checkride, and your career will not be over, especially if it was at the entry level when you're (usually) young and not familiar with the ins and outs of aviation. General aviation (where you do your training) is also not very consistent on training and checking standards so comparing two people based on that doesn't really tell you much.
At the professional (turbine/121/135) level, training is more consistent (especially in 121) so they take that more seriously. But again if you fail your first airline training that's not the end of the world either, but you don't want to make a habit of that for sure. One of the landmark accidents in recent US aviation history involved a pilot who had failed training regularly throughout his career... that accident and the aftermath has shaped attitudes at the airlines.
Now with all that said there are some things you can do to minimize the risk of GA busts.
1. Over-prepare. Pretty obvious. The financial cost to your career of even one failed ride far outweigh any amount of time and effort you might have to put in to prepare.
2. Don't take rides you don't feel ready for, even if your instructor pushses.
3. Some schools tend to "push" students through. Do your research, don't attend a school like that. If you find yourself with a bad school or instructor, find a new one. Schools/instructors have absolutely ZERO bearing on your future employment, don't be intimidated by them.
4. Make sure any potential employer does not have a reputation for bad training. There are still a few out there, although most of the regionals have cleaned house.
If you do have a bust (probably 50% of professional pilots have one)...
CFI Initial has a very high failure rate. This will cause less concern than other rides. PPL also will not cause a lot of concerns if it's the only one.
You'll have to disclose that on airline applications. Don't lie, odds are high they'll find out from your FAA record.
One bust will probably just delay your interview call, could be months or years, but they simply prefer applicants with clean records, all else being equal.
More than 2-3 busts will seriously limit your options, many of the best employers will never call.
Most regionals are pretty tolerant of busts, you should be able to get a regional job unless you have a very high number of busts.
At the professional (turbine/121/135) level, training is more consistent (especially in 121) so they take that more seriously. But again if you fail your first airline training that's not the end of the world either, but you don't want to make a habit of that for sure. One of the landmark accidents in recent US aviation history involved a pilot who had failed training regularly throughout his career... that accident and the aftermath has shaped attitudes at the airlines.
Now with all that said there are some things you can do to minimize the risk of GA busts.
1. Over-prepare. Pretty obvious. The financial cost to your career of even one failed ride far outweigh any amount of time and effort you might have to put in to prepare.
2. Don't take rides you don't feel ready for, even if your instructor pushses.
3. Some schools tend to "push" students through. Do your research, don't attend a school like that. If you find yourself with a bad school or instructor, find a new one. Schools/instructors have absolutely ZERO bearing on your future employment, don't be intimidated by them.
4. Make sure any potential employer does not have a reputation for bad training. There are still a few out there, although most of the regionals have cleaned house.
If you do have a bust (probably 50% of professional pilots have one)...
CFI Initial has a very high failure rate. This will cause less concern than other rides. PPL also will not cause a lot of concerns if it's the only one.
You'll have to disclose that on airline applications. Don't lie, odds are high they'll find out from your FAA record.
One bust will probably just delay your interview call, could be months or years, but they simply prefer applicants with clean records, all else being equal.
More than 2-3 busts will seriously limit your options, many of the best employers will never call.
Most regionals are pretty tolerant of busts, you should be able to get a regional job unless you have a very high number of busts.
09-02-2019, 03:08 PM
#6
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,082
You have to see it this way, the further you get in your training or in your career the more experienced you get at taking checkrides and it can be expected that you are better able to recognize when you are and are NOT ready for a checkride.
Private
Instrument
Commercial Single Engine
Commercial Multi engine
CFI - initial
CFII
MEI
ATP - should be your 8th checkride.
Private, Instrument or CFI Initial failed can probably be overlooked.
Issue being that most airline applications start with an online process and the computer simply discards or second grades the applications that have one (or more) failed checkrides marked.
Private
Instrument
Commercial Single Engine
Commercial Multi engine
CFI - initial
CFII
MEI
ATP - should be your 8th checkride.
Private, Instrument or CFI Initial failed can probably be overlooked.
Issue being that most airline applications start with an online process and the computer simply discards or second grades the applications that have one (or more) failed checkrides marked.
09-02-2019, 05:06 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 621
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Anyone can fail one checkride, and your career will not be over, especially if it was at the entry level when you're (usually) young and not familiar with the ins and outs of aviation. General aviation (where you do your training) is also not very consistent on training and checking standards so comparing two people based on that doesn't really tell you much.
At the professional (turbine/121/135) level, training is more consistent (especially in 121) so they take that more seriously. But again if you fail your first airline training that's not the end of the world either, but you don't want to make a habit of that for sure. One of the landmark accidents in recent US aviation history involved a pilot who had failed training regularly throughout his career... that accident and the aftermath has shaped attitudes at the airlines.
Now with all that said there are some things you can do to minimize the risk of GA busts.
1. Over-prepare. Pretty obvious. The financial cost to your career of even one failed ride far outweigh any amount of time and effort you might have to put in to prepare.
2. Don't take rides you don't feel ready for, even if your instructor pushses.
3. Some schools tend to "push" students through. Do your research, don't attend a school like that. If you find yourself with a bad school or instructor, find a new one. Schools/instructors have absolutely ZERO bearing on your future employment, don't be intimidated by them.
4. Make sure any potential employer does not have a reputation for bad training. There are still a few out there, although most of the regionals have cleaned house.
If you do have a bust (probably 50% of professional pilots have one)...
CFI Initial has a very high failure rate. This will cause less concern than other rides. PPL also will not cause a lot of concerns if it's the only one.
You'll have to disclose that on airline applications. Don't lie, odds are high they'll find out from your FAA record.
One bust will probably just delay your interview call, could be months or years, but they simply prefer applicants with clean records, all else being equal.
More than 2-3 busts will seriously limit your options, many of the best employers will never call.
Most regionals are pretty tolerant of busts, you should be able to get a regional job unless you have a very high number of busts.
At the professional (turbine/121/135) level, training is more consistent (especially in 121) so they take that more seriously. But again if you fail your first airline training that's not the end of the world either, but you don't want to make a habit of that for sure. One of the landmark accidents in recent US aviation history involved a pilot who had failed training regularly throughout his career... that accident and the aftermath has shaped attitudes at the airlines.
Now with all that said there are some things you can do to minimize the risk of GA busts.
1. Over-prepare. Pretty obvious. The financial cost to your career of even one failed ride far outweigh any amount of time and effort you might have to put in to prepare.
2. Don't take rides you don't feel ready for, even if your instructor pushses.
3. Some schools tend to "push" students through. Do your research, don't attend a school like that. If you find yourself with a bad school or instructor, find a new one. Schools/instructors have absolutely ZERO bearing on your future employment, don't be intimidated by them.
4. Make sure any potential employer does not have a reputation for bad training. There are still a few out there, although most of the regionals have cleaned house.
If you do have a bust (probably 50% of professional pilots have one)...
CFI Initial has a very high failure rate. This will cause less concern than other rides. PPL also will not cause a lot of concerns if it's the only one.
You'll have to disclose that on airline applications. Don't lie, odds are high they'll find out from your FAA record.
One bust will probably just delay your interview call, could be months or years, but they simply prefer applicants with clean records, all else being equal.
More than 2-3 busts will seriously limit your options, many of the best employers will never call.
Most regionals are pretty tolerant of busts, you should be able to get a regional job unless you have a very high number of busts.
09-02-2019, 08:30 PM
#8
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,216
Originally Posted by Bahamasflyer
One thing I'll add is to do your homework on all of the DPE's in your area. Talk to people, get the gouge on him/her, etc. You'll easily and quickly find out which ones might pink you for smaller stuff, vs which ones will give you the benefit of the doubt for a "rough around the edges" maneuver, especially if all else goes well.
09-03-2019, 05:28 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 155
What about failing upgrade? I failed my oral exam but was told since I have the type it isn’t really a “check” same goes with the Fed ride..I was told if you fail the Fed ride it just shows up as extra OE on your record. I’ve had a clean record with checkrides but the oral and Fed ride did not go too hot. Still ended up upgrading but got two dings out of it.
High fail rate at the time with the upgrades when I went through
High fail rate at the time with the upgrades when I went through
09-04-2019, 07:56 AM
#10
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,216
Originally Posted by Mjm8710
What about failing upgrade? I failed my oral exam but was told since I have the type it isn’t really a “check” same goes with the Fed ride..I was told if you fail the Fed ride it just shows up as extra OE on your record. I’ve had a clean record with checkrides but the oral and Fed ride did not go too hot. Still ended up upgrading but got two dings out of it.
High fail rate at the time with the upgrades when I went through
High fail rate at the time with the upgrades when I went through
A failed fed observation would not appear on PRIA. I don't think extra IOE appears, IIRC there would be one line for all of the IOE performed during upgrade. You would see something like this...
Initial Line Check Date
Initial Fed Observation Date (Examiner Name)
IOE Date 48:30 hours
Any extra IOE would just be part of the total. But a savvy reviewer might know how much IOE is normal at your airline. For regionals it's usually very close to the legal min, an extra 3-4 day trip would be a flag for sure.
Bottom line, an oral for a type you already have may not be PRIA reportable, and an upgrade Fed observation is definitely not PRIA reportable. Get a copy of your PRIA report from your current airline.
But that does not mean it's OK to lie to an airline, they ask "have you ever failed...", not "have you ever failed a PRIA reportable event".
If you lie and get caught (sometimes they can read between the lines) you will 100% lose the job offer, or if already employed 100% get fired. In the later case you'll slink back to the right seat of an RJ, never to be seen at a major again... getting fired for lying IS reportable on PRIA.
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